Get This - Paladin's mount not immune to fear

[reapersaurus]

Yet another gaping rule hole when it comes to Paladins.

 

[Halivar]

I thought Magical Beasts got good base Will saves... and isn't that what a Paladin's mount is?

Nope. Being a paladin's mount does not change the creature's type. At least, there is nothing on p. 45 of the PHB that would suggest something like that.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Finally, I'm not saying it isn't an easy thing to fix. After all, high level fighters have the same problem with Will saves. Most high level fighters need to have a magic item to protect vs fear otherwise they run away. (I have a 12th lvl fighter with no Wis bonus; I had to beg at the local LG church and agree to whatever they wanted just so I could get something so I wouldn't keep using the line "Yes, Master, Whatever you want Master!".

If there is a problem, it is that Paladin Mounts and Fighters and Barbarians and Rangers are too easy to Fear for the heroic feel of the genre. That may be true, but it is not a problem confined to the Mount.

That feat the Paladin Mount gets with its 6th HD really should be a save booster. Warhorses just do not usually get to build useful feat chains. It would be perfectly reasonable to create a custom feat that gives a +4 unnamed bonus to Fear.

Artoomis has experience riding his Paladin Wardog in a dungeon. He specifically came to the board looking for advice on boosting saves. Can anyone ping him and get him to add his two cents to this thread?

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

I thought Magical Beasts got good base Will saves... and isn't that what a Paladin's mount is?

From 3.5 PHB pg 45 "A mount has good Fortitude and Reflex saves".

Also a Paladin's Mount is a Magical Beast. No, it's an animal. No it's a Magical Beast. Rather than make up their mind they made a Paladin's Warhorse BOTH a Magical Beast & an Animal. Quote "A paladin's mount is treated as a magical beast, not an animal, for the purpose of all effects that depend on its type (though it reatains an animal's HD, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats)". Huh? Why not just make it one or the other?

Of course an animal can't have an Int over 2 & a Paladin's mount starts at 6. And I meean making it a true magical beast would be sooo overpowering. I mean it'd get, like +1 hp/HD, slightly better BAB (= to HD rather than 3/4 HD) & Darkvision 60'. I mean is it really THAT overpowering that they HAD to break their OWN rules about creature types?

I think this is just adding extra complications that confuse new players. I've (unknowingly) been having my own PC's & my players PC's have their Paladins mount advance EXACTlY as Magical Beasts and there has been no balance issues. (on a 3.5 note: if you summon it from its "celestial realm" ain't that a magical beast?"

Vraille Darkfang

 

[Halivar]

on a 3.5 note: if you summon it from its "celestial realm" ain't that a magical beast?

I imagine it would be an outsider in that case.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

I imagine it would be an outsider in that case.

Yes! Even more confusion to muddy the waters. Of course it could be a magical beast with the extraplanar subtype. Either way, they still re-wrote their own rules as far as the Paladin Mount is concered.

Vraille Darkfang

 

[Mahali]

Also a Paladin's Mount is a Magical Beast. No, it's an animal. No it's a Magical Beast. Rather than make up their mind they made a Paladin's Warhorse BOTH a Magical Beast & an Animal. Quote "A paladin's mount is treated as a magical beast, not an animal, for the purpose of all effects that depend on its type (though it reatains an animal's HD, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats)". Huh? Why not just make it one or the other?
?"
Vraille Darkfang

Because they don't want to give it all the benefits of a Magical Beast or have it Animal Growthed or Animal Handled away from the Paladin (or other similar effects).

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

Because they don't want to give it all the benefits of a Magical Beast or have it Animal Growthed or Animal Handled away from the Paladin (or other similar effects).

Yes, but a Paladin doesn't get that much to just have it BE a Magical Beast. Have it have all the stats of a magical beast. I paid 30 bucks for the Monster Manual which states animals CAN"T have an Int over 2. If it's got a Int above 2 it is ALWAYS A MAGICAL BEAST. Now I have the PHB tell me "we know that we said an Int over 2 makes it a Magical Beast, but we feel this would make the Paladin waaaay too powerful, so we decided we'll just ignore our own rules because we want too."

Part of what maek a RPG fun is how well the rules work, the more exceptions, add-ons, etc, detract from the usefulness of the game engine. That's what the Paladin's Special Mount does. By violating their own rules (for the sake of rules-balance), they just added an additional layer of complexity (that doesn't really need to be there IMO). Look at 2nd ed & Skills & Powers for what happens when you just load down a system with contradictory rules.

3.5 Note: From this perspective, at a certain Paladin level you may now call a steed from the celestial stables of your GOD! A special mount direct from the boss's own place to help you in your quest to defeat evil. You telling my god has normal mounts? I'd say callling the default Paladin's warhorse a Magical Beast with the Extraplanar subtype (which would actually FOLLOW the rules) is not so overpowering that making a special, unique, exception to the rules is justified.

Keep it as simple as it needs to be (I think I got that from Monte's website),
Vraille Darkfang

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Why don't they just say that a paladin's mount cannot fail its fear save so long as the paladin succeeds? If the paladin fails, so does the mount. To me, that's a much better representation of the paladin and his stalwart steed (RIKES!! Let's get out of here Horsey-hoof!!).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Why don't they just say that a paladin's mount cannot fail its fear save so long as the paladin succeeds? If the paladin fails, so does the mount. To me, that's a much better representation of the paladin and his stalwart steed (RIKES!! Let's get out of here Horsey-hoof!!).

Paladins don't even bother rolling saves against Fear effects. They're immune.

-Hyp.