Getting Overwhelmed by "Everything is Core"

[delericho]

In previous editions I bought the core books and whatever expansions I felt like using. Now I feel like I'm falling behind the curve because it appears each new iteration of releases introduces new concepts beyond the first three books.

So are there other impovrished gamers (or Luddites) that have been able to put together healthy games without the DDI or using all of the latest rulebooks?

There's some truth in this. The mountain of books now available means that my group will never get back into 4e. If we tried it again and liked it, it stands to reason that some/much of the available material would be worth getting, but that's just too much to even consider.

This is also the same reason I'll never get into Magic, WoW, or pretty much any other MMO. Having missed the initial rush, I'm at a point where the money or time required to "catch up" to a reasonable level is just too much to even consider. I'm better off just staying out of it.

However, that said, the basic truth is this: you don't need to buy any of these supplements. The game works just fine with only the initial 3 books, and if you and your group is happy, then who cares if you're not "current"? So, if you're feeling overwhelmed by the need to have and use everything, don't. I know it sounds trite, but that basically is the answer.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Nearly all the extra books are for the players, if they want to use something from one of those books, they can buy it, or use the character builder. 4e has been a lot better at balancing the classes than in earlier editions. Or should I say - the extra books are more balanced.

As a DM you need the PHB, DMG, MM1 and I would recommend the MM2.

 

[Thanee]

I would restrict the books to the following...

PHB/DMG/MM
PHB2/DMG2/MM2
Martial Power/Arcane Power/Divine Power/Primal Power
Adventurer's Vault/Adventurer's Vault 2

Plus maybe some Setting/Environmental books, if you like those.

That's it. You don't need anything beyond that, ever.

Noone here has a DDI subscription, we all consider it a ridiculous waste of money. Game works fine, so there is certainly no need for it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Dice4Hire]

Noone here has a DDI subscription, we all consider it a ridiculous waste of money. Game works fine, so there is certainly no need for it.

I certainly agree and would stand with you, but I catch on fire very easily, so I will support you from over here.

 

[Thanee]

Heh. Just to clarify... this is not meant to be negative in any way about those who like DDI.
If they get their value out of it, great! I (and the folks I play with) wouldn't, that's all.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Starfox]

If you do what many people here recommended, pay $10 and download five copies of the character builder, you can then mark which sources are legal for people to use in the character builder. Thus, you can say "only books X, Y, and Z" if you like, and the character builder will only display those options.

 

[S'mon]

I would restrict the books to the following...

PHB/DMG/MM
PHB2/DMG2/MM2
Martial Power/Arcane Power/Divine Power/Primal Power
Adventurer's Vault/Adventurer's Vault 2

I ran the game fine last year with just PHB/DMG/MM, but allowing players pretty much anything in the Char Builder. For this year I've upgraded to:

PHB/DMG/MM
DMG2/MM2
Adventurer's Vault

MM2 is worth it for the new monsters; Adventurer's Vault means much better treasure placement than just using the PHB (but I disallow AV's Transfer Enchantment ritual). I don't see any need for other PC-centric tomes beyond the PHB. DMG2 is nice but not really necessary.

Edit: Treasure Placement using AV - choose a treasure level, open index at back, and stab blindly with the blunt end of a pencil. Works great.

 

[Dausuul]

WotC marketing wants you to think everything is core, but WotC marketing is a bunch of lying weasels. Core is what core has always been; PHB, DMG, Monster Manual. If you've got those, you've got what you need to play. Everything else is optional. Don't be afraid to ban stuff you can't afford or don't like... if you don't want to deal with it, you don't have to.

I do, however, suggest buying one more month of DDI - just the one, no auto-renewing - so you can download the latest monster builder and database of monsters. It makes homebrewing monsters a snap, which is immensely valuable for a DM with a limited supply of books.

I will add that I've pretty much stopped buying 4E books and may well terminate my DDI subscription. The flood of player crunch no longer interests me - call me back when they start releasing classes that have a concept, like "illusionist" or "necromancer" or "swashbuckler," instead of a power source and role - and even the DM crunch sees limited use in my games. And WotC seems to have gotten out of the fluff business; their heart was never in it anyway. So more and more, I'm just homebrewing what I need.

 

[Thanee]

Don't get hung up on the term "Core". The meaning has changed with the 4th edition.

Now, the RPG books are Core, while stuff like Adventures, Miniatures, Dungeon Tiles, Novels, etc. are Non-Core.

It's just something entirely different, than the Core of the RPG system.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I don't think this is an issue with 4th edition. (Caveat - I've never actually played the darn game ...)

Rely on the players to understand what their powers do, encourage them to keep up with the errata as it applies to their characters, and reserve the right of last resort to ban something retrospectively if it should turn out to be a problem in play.

This. And so far I've yet to have to ban anything.

The impression I get is that most monsters straight out of MM1 can still challenge characters whose features have been cherry picked from a dozen later supplements. Solos may be the exception, as I have heard that the MM1 ones might be a bit weak.

Yes, again. Except I personally wouldn't use the term "cherry picked." That term in 3E seemed to come from the ability to dip into certain classes and prestige classes to optimize your character in unfair ways, YDMV. There are more options from the various releases, but they don't seem to create the same issue that arose in 3E.

One potential problem is skill challenges. There's been tons written about how they work or don't work, and I am now thoroughly confused. Getting DMG2 might help here.

The DMG2 sounds like a good buy, although I haven't bought it. A DDi subscription, IMO, is better than the books for the DM. I usually subscribe for a shorter period of time and re-sub only when I really need to work on my campaign. Players need only buy books that interest them.

I'd be really happy if folks with more experience of 4th edition could agree or disagree with the above!

My campaign has been running along smoothly with my only physical purchases being the core 3, Adventurer's Vault (and I really didn't need this book), and the WotC adventures (H1-3, P1-3, and E1-2 so far). I've had a DDi subscription roughly 30% of the time. My players have purchased the splat books that they find interesting and all but one uses CB.