Getting physical

[Frostmarrow]

Any given role-playing game has rules for how to play out combat with dice, pens, and sometimes even minatures. This is something RPGs do surprisingly well. Who would have thought that a few scores on a sheet of paper and dice could lead to such an exciting experience?

Also, all RPGs features guidlines as to how a player can take on the the role of a hero. There is no end to the imaginative archetypes you can portray. Sure, some of those archetypes are more cliché than others but still the possibilities are endless. -Portrayal is pretty much what separates RPGs from boardgames and computer games.

Having dealt with two different elements in RPGs I would like to discuss a third element of seemingly equal importance. -Physical maneuvering. Almost all RPGs has rules on how far a character can jump, how fast he can swim or climb, and a whole slew of other activities. Now, I don't think RPGs does this very well...

You see, for me it's not exciting at all to roll dice, cross reference my character sheet and a table in a rule book to learn that my jump I just made was 12". In a computer game jumping makes sense but in an RPG it just isn't quite the same. Does anyone else feel this way?

I like to hack and slash with my imaginary sword and I like to socialize with my friends in a let's pretend manner but I think it's dull to suffer dice olympics.

When I was a child I thought physical maneuvering was quite fun. We could devote hours of precious game time to compete and compare our respective characters in various sports. As soon as two fighters met they would immediately arm-wrestle for the title Strongest Man Around. If we found ourselves in a tavern a beer drinking contest would be announced before anyone could say "botte opener". We would compete in the high jump, the long jump, the pole-vault (if covered by the rules), and so on. We never do that anymore for it's no fun.

Still, combat is fun, role-playing and character portrayal is fun. Would RPGs be more fun without physical maneuvering?

 

[Crothian]

Still, combat is fun, role-playing and character portrayal is fun. Would RPGs be more fun without physical maneuvering?

No, but they would also be no less fun either.

Fun for me has always been about the group, and some groups do certain areas of the game better then others. So, if this section of the game is not as fun for you all get rid of it or something. Its like streamlining the game. For instance getting to a town and shopiing, getting clues as each player does their own thing has always been a part I never li9ked. So, I moived that to message boards when I can and I streamline what we do at the gaming table. THings that everyone gets involved in and everyone enjoys for the most part are done at the gaming table while these less fun and sometimes more tedious areas are delt with later.

One important thing though and it seems some d20 people don't always understand, is the players don't always have to roll dice. You can say there is a ravine in front of them and just say the players climnb, jump, or whatever by it. They don't always have to roll dice for ever little thing.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I'm not trying to improve the game one way or the other I'm just trying to understand what RPGs are. Some media are better suited to describe certain elements. Literature does great dialogue. The best explosions are in movies. Cardtricks sucks on the radio.

And I feel RPGs does great tactical combat and character portrayal.

You are perfectly right about RPGs being about the group. RPGs can handle the group whilst having problems handling people separate. -Scooby Doo would never work as an RPG.

 

[eris404]

When I was a child I thought physical maneuvering was quite fun. We could devote hours of precious game time to compete and compare our respective characters in various sports. As soon as two fighters met they would immediately arm-wrestle for the title Strongest Man Around. If we found ourselves in a tavern a beer drinking contest would be announced before anyone could say "botte opener". We would compete in the high jump, the long jump, the pole-vault (if covered by the rules), and so on. We never do that anymore for it's no fun.

Just out of curiosity, what made it fun for you then? And, what do you think would make maneuvering in game fun for you now?

 

[Frostmarrow]

Just out of curiosity, what made it fun for you then? And, what do you think would make maneuvering in game fun for you now?

That's a very good question. Maybe we didn't quite understand probability and now we see through the odds all too quickly? (In combat the calculations are more complex). When we were kids comparing stuff was important. "Oh look, Thor is the strongest god of them all!" I don't know. I just know that checks aren't that fun anymore.

One of the first modules I selected and decided to run was from a Best of Dungeon book. It was an olympic game and the characters came to the games and tried to win every event. It was fun but I can't imagine running it today. "Alright, Herakles just leapt 30'. You need a to roll 19 or better to win this round."

The thing is that you could run the olympics with the 3.5E rule set but it would be dull and nowhere near the real thing. I mean in the really real world athletes prepare themselves for years to make a few attempts at the finest of all competions and if they botch they pretty much wasted their youth. If they succeed, however, it's got to be bliss! RPGs can't really capture that level of commitment.

But let me ask you: Is rolling checks all that exciting? What would you rather experience in one evening of your favorite RPG:

1. A gruelling melee
2. A grand negotiation
3. A great competition

 

[Mercule]

Still, combat is fun, role-playing and character portrayal is fun. Would RPGs be more fun without physical maneuvering?

As someone who has had great fun playing a Thief-Acrobat in 3E, I'd say "no". As has been said, though, it comes down to the group and the player.

I love swashbuckling and unlikely feats of heroic action. Spells like Fly and Dimension Door frustrate me to no end, as they allow PCs to bypass some of the coolest scenes (IMO) in a game. Obviously, your tastes run differently.

I could pose the question "Would RPGs be more fun without lots of magic?" It'd make perfect sense to me. I never saw Merlin as the PC. The "heroes" are the guys who are skilled in swords, stealth, athletics, and wits. They fight the casters. Obviously, I'm not exactly in the majority on a board like this. Still, that question is valid to a certain (valid) style of play.

Anyway, short form: It might be for your group, but it's a flavor issue and should not be taken as an absolute in terms of good game design.

 

[Mercule]

But let me ask you: Is rolling checks all that exciting? What would you rather experience in one evening of your favorite RPG:

1. A gruelling melee
2. A grand negotiation
3. A great competition

All sound equally fun, IMO. Of course, the competition would have to be GMed well. Track and Field shows are no more entertaining to play than an attack on a practice dummy. On the other hand, a chase scene across the rooftops of Greyhawk is quite fun. As would be a race through an obstacle course with pits, swinging axes, ropes to climb, etc.

 

[Frostmarrow]

As someone who has had great fun playing a Thief-Acrobat in 3E, I'd say "no". As has been said, though, it comes down to the group and the player.

I love swashbuckling and unlikely feats of heroic action. Spells like Fly and Dimension Door frustrate me to no end, as they allow PCs to bypass some of the coolest scenes (IMO) in a game. Obviously, your tastes run differently.

I could pose the question "Would RPGs be more fun without lots of magic?" It'd make perfect sense to me. I never saw Merlin as the PC. The "heroes" are the guys who are skilled in swords, stealth, athletics, and wits. They fight the casters. Obviously, I'm not exactly in the majority on a board like this. Still, that question is valid to a certain (valid) style of play.

Anyway, short form: It might be for your group, but it's a flavor issue and should not be taken as an absolute in terms of good game design.

You know, I wouldn't miss magic in an RPG. But I'd sure miss the opportunity to fly or dimension door. I like to be able to do what I can do based on timing rather than the roll of a dice. I've had the most fun (in D&D) playing a wizard casting the right spell at the right time. -Snatching the idol from the demon's hand and teleporting to safety just in time to avoid his big serrated blade, that sort of thing.

 

[Mercule]

I've had the most fun (in D&D) playing a wizard casting the right spell at the right time. -Snatching the idol from the demon's hand and teleporting to safety just in time to avoid his big serrated blade, that sort of thing.

And I enjoy doing that through building a character with the right athletic skills, managing the risk of bad die rolls, etc. It's just fun to know that the work I'm doing in putting together my PC's skills -- and in utilizing them -- is paying off. In a way, it's what you were saying about a RL athlete training and prepping for a meet and knowing their whole future is being gambled on the cards of their past.

Plus, I happen to think the image of a hero jumping, diving, tumbling, and dancing through the blade traps is much, much cooler than *BAMF*.

 

[Frostmarrow]

And I enjoy doing that through building a character with the right athletic skills, managing the risk of bad die rolls, etc. It's just fun to know that the work I'm doing in putting together my PC's skills -- and in utilizing them -- is paying off. In a way, it's what you were saying about a RL athlete training and prepping for a meet and knowing their whole future is being gambled on the cards of their past.

Plus, I happen to think the image of a hero jumping, diving, tumbling, and dancing through the blade traps is much, much cooler than *BAMF*.

Fair enough. Just for the record I'm not saying Dimension Door is cooler than Tumbling, I just like timing better than dice. (You could, for example have a system that allowed you to use your athletics skill 3 times per day instead of +12.)

Do you think published modules caters to your preferences? Are there enough roof-top chases?