Getting rid of Cross-Class skills?

[Inari]

Personally, I still make cross-class skills cost 2 points as normal. But on the other hand, I let each player select 3 skills (and one determined by his family). These 3(4) skills are always considered class skills for him, and if he ever takes a level of a class where these skills are class skills, he gets a +2 synergy bonus to them.

So far it's worked quite well.

 

[Li Shenron]

Why further pigeon-hole characters by giving them half as many skill points as others AND THEN making skills cost twice as much?

Skill points represent that someone has taken time to learn a skill. Why would one person be better at listening (or swimming) than another? Isn't this taken care of with ability score adjustments?

First of all, you could try to think that some characters are twice better because they have at the same time more skills to buy at half price and more skill points, instead of thinking that the others are pigeon-holed.

Then think that skill ranks represent experience while ability modifiers represent attitudes. I agree that a couple of skills like Spot or Listen may seem more difficult to "train" consciously, but they are still the result of the characters way of life.

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It seems that I always write this, and I may be probably the only one who uses the following house rule, which is "the other way around" the one used by everyone else: I keep the cost of cross-class skills equal to 2 points per rank, but I let max rank be level+3 just as with class skills.

I think my house rules keeps the difference between characters with good or bad class skill list, but at the same time doesn't forbid a character to become very good in one skill he really likes, without multiclassing.

There are many (but not all, definitely) skills which is much better to keep as high as possible, otherwise they tend to become less and less useful as levels go up. For these skills, you either have them as class skills or not have ranks at all, because soon even maxed out they would hardly work, and it doesn't really matter if you have payed them less.

 

[Khaalis]

Personally I don't think there are enough skill points to go around in most cases, and I feel that many of the class skill lists are a bit restrictive. So I also use the house rule that cross-class skills cost only 1 point, but they carry the skill cap. The cap, in my view of the system, represents the fact that this is a side-line skill, a hobby if you will, not something you normally dedicate training to, thus it lags behind your primary skills.

Case in point you cant create a Noble-born military trained Fighter archetype with the Fighter class skills because the have no access to Knowledge (Nobility or Engineering). To do this requires the use of cross-class skills, of which the fighter is designed to be the brainless sword swinger and gets precious few points.

On another side note, as a few others have mentioned. I allow a "Heritage" Bonus at creation. It allows for a mechanics addition to the character for more creativity in character development.

Heritage Skill Options: Choose one of the following Heritage Skill options at 1st level. All choices must be relevant to the PC's culture.
• +2 inherent bonus to two Craft, Knowledge, or Profession skills.
• +2 inherent bonus to one Class skill.
• +1 inherent bonus to two Class skills.
• +1 inherent bonus to one Class skill and choose one appropriate Cross-Class skill to become a Class skill*.
• +1 inherent bonus to one Class skill and swap two Class Skills for appropriate Cross-Class skills*.
• Choose two appropriate Cross-Class skills to become Class skills*.
*: These skills become class skills regardless of the class currently being trained, thus they remain class skills even if the PC multi-classes after 1st level.

For example - the Noble-born militant Fighter could choose option 6, and add Knowledge (Nobility & Engineering) as permanent class skills.

I have found that players like the ability to "tweak" their character and actually have skills for that relate to their background. I also have playtested this and find there to be no imbalance from the bonuses.

 

[Afrodyte]

I agree with Sir Whiskers. I think that, given the number of skill points each class has, it is not necessary to further penalize classes by increasing the cost of certain skills as well as limiting how proficient you get at those skills. This is especially the case for skills that every class could benefit from like Listen, Spot, Knowledge (geography, history, local, nobility/royalty), and Profession.

As far as keeping barbarian PCs from maxing out inappropriate skills like Decipher Script and Use Magic Device, I'm not particularly concerned with it. There is always Power Word No to fling at such attempts, which is generally better than making the game more complicated to prevent cheaters and muchkins from doing what they're going to do.

 

[trentonjoe]

One of the guys in my group saw this post and brought it up to me. We both think the Grayhawk only cost one but max is still half plan the best.

I am intrigued. I think this is a swell idea and just cannot imagine how it can be abused. However, I am generally opposed to anything that makes PCs better without them having to pay for it.

Two questions:

1) How can this be abused? Is it really unbalancing for a 5th level barbaian to have 4 ranks in Use Magic Device?

2) Is there something (hopefully equally as small) that can be taken away from a PC so that the player can decide if it is worth it? For Example ( and Idon't think this is fair) in order to no pay double for cc skills the PC must sacrifice one skill point per level (or every other level).