Ghost Touch Weapons and Sunder

[Mr.Binx]

I was browsing through the DMG looking for different abilities to smith into an adamantine bastard sword when I thought of something while looking at the ghost touch ability. Since a ghost touch weapon is ethereal whenever it would be most beneficial to the wielder, this means that the ghost touch weapon is considered ethereal whenever someone tries to sunder or disarm it. That's pretty sleek! I was wondering if anybody else had thought of this or actually encountered similar issues during gameplay.

 

[AuraSeer]

I've thought of that, but I doubt most DMs would let Ghost Touch have that effect. The power just lets a weapon touch and be touched by both material and incorporeal creatures. Even if it can switch back and forth on that kind of time scale, how would it know to turn incorporeal when it's being Sundered, but not when the wielder is trying to parry a blade?

If you allow this, you open the door to having Ghost Touch weapons ignore all armor. After all, it would be "most advantageous" for the weapon to pass straight through the enemy's plate mail, and then turn solid while already inside his body. Not cool, especially for just a +1 equivalent enhancement.

IMC I assume that the weapon is both corporeal and incorporeal at the same time. That has the same effect of letting it strike corporeal and incorporeal creatures, without the complexity of having it switch back and forth.

FTR, note that the Ghost Touch enhancement is effective against incorporeal creatures, not ethereal ones. (Yes, there is a difference.) This means you also can't use a Ghost Touch sword to eliminate the miss chance caused by Blinking.

 

[Mr.Binx]

Aye, I didn't think about it that way. I think that last sentence in the DMG is just to reiterate and not to add any additional functionality to the effect. Ah well.

 

[tburdett]

I've thought of that, but I doubt most DMs would let Ghost

FTR, note that the Ghost Touch enhancement is effective against incorporeal creatures, not ethereal ones. (Yes, there is a difference.) This means you also can't use a Ghost Touch sword to eliminate the miss chance caused by Blinking.

Support, using the rules, your statement that Ghost Touch is not effective against ethereal creatures.

 

[Gooseman]

Read the Etherealness entry on page 76 of the DMG. Then look at the next page to find out about being Incorporeal.

The ghost touch weapon quality works against incorporeal creatures, it does not allow you to strike ethereal. Indeed, you would need magic just to SEE an ethereal being.

 

[kreynolds]

Support, using the rules, your statement that Ghost Touch is not effective against ethereal creatures.

Uhm...how about you go ahead and read the Ghost Touch weapon ability before you make demands. You might save time, and quite possibly, your own pride that way.

 

[AuraSeer]

Support, using the rules, your statement that Ghost Touch is not effective against ethereal creatures.

What is this, a freshman philosophy class? Okay, Teech, I'll try to do it in 500 words or less.

In this essay I will explain that 'ethereal' and 'incorporeal' are two distinct concepts.

An incorporeal creature is on the Material Plane, but it isn't solid. It can make physical attacks which ignore material armor. It can be harmed by +1 or better weapons, or by magic. Force effects damage it normally; any other damaging effect has a 50% chance of being ignored.

An ethereal creature, on the other hand, is located on the Ethereal Plane. It is automatically invisible. From the SRD: "An ethereal creature can’t affect the Material Plane, not even magically." Material creatures can affect an ethereal creature with force effects or gaze attacks, but nothing else.

The description of the Ghost Touch enhancement states only that it affects incorporeal creatures. It does not say it grants any special abilities against ethereal creatures. Therefore, like all material objects, the weapon remains unable to damage or affect the ethereal plane.

Wanna check my work? Read this page.

 

[Mr.Binx]

What is this, a freshman philosphy class? Okay, Teech, I'll try to do it in 500 words or less.

In this essay I will explain that 'ethereal' and 'incorporeal' are two distinct concepts.

An incorporeal creature is on the Material Plane, but it isn't solid. It can make physical attacks which ignore material armor. It can be harmed by +1 or better weapons, or by magic. Force effects damage it normally; any other damaging effect has a 50% chance of being ignored.

An ethereal creature, on the other hand, is located on the Ethereal Plane. It is automatically invisible. From the SRD: "An ethereal creature can’t affect the Material Plane, not even magically." Material creatures can affect an ethereal creature with force effects or gaze attacks, but nothing else.

The description of the Ghost Touch enhancement states only that it affects incorporeal creatures. It does not say it grants any special abilities against ethereal creatures. Therefore, like all material objects, the weapon remains unable to damage or affect the ethereal plane.

Wanna check my work? Read this page.

Good grammar. Student backed up his findings with sound logic and even included document references. I'd give it an 'A' despite the fact that the student mispelled 'philosophy'.

 

[AuraSeer]

Misspelled? Where? I don't see any mistakes! Do you see any mistakes?

 

[tburdett]

Uhm...how about you go ahead and read the Ghost Touch weapon ability before you make demands. You might save time, and quite possibly, your own pride that way.

No pride involved at all, and I saved time by asking someone else to find or provide the answer for me. I don't need to know everything as long as I know who to ask or where to find it.

Our group had this argument last week (during a game session) and I was unable to find the rules. When I noticed this topic and the subject matter it seemed like a logical place to look for information.

I now have the information I need to answer the question once and for all.

Thanks!