D&D 5E Ghoul and Ghast attack bonuses

[devincutler]

As an aspiring DMs Guild adventure writer, I have been paying much closer attention to stat blocks in the Monster Manual.

Can someone tell me how the attack bonuses for ghouls and ghasts were calculated? Specifically, why is the bite attack 2 less than the claw attack? As best I can figure out, the designers did not give the bite attack a proficiency bonus. That seems strange to make a creature not proficient in its own natural attack.

 

[pukunui]

Hmm. I hadn't noticed that before. Looks like an error (that was missed in the initial round of MM errata).

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

As an aspiring DMs Guild adventure writer, I have been paying much closer attention to stat blocks in the Monster Manual.

Can someone tell me how the attack bonuses for ghouls and ghasts were calculated? Specifically, why is the bite attack 2 less than the claw attack? As best I can figure out, the designers did not give the bite attack a proficiency bonus. That seems strange to make a creature not proficient in its own natural attack.

It's not a Dex vs. Strength thing because Ghast Str and Dex are both 16. I think you're right--it can only be because of proficiency. It's the same pattern in both ghouls and ghasts, so I'm guessing it wasn't just an oversight like the Warhorse (which used to be non-proficient in its hoof attack, until MM errata came out). I can only infer that it was done for flavor reasons--ghouls and ghasts are more used to attacking with their claws than their mouths, but maybe they'll attack with their mouths anyway once the target is paralyzed and they are hungry for juicy flesh.

The lesson for you as a writer should be: if you do this kind of thing to your monsters, make sure you call it out in the description somehow so everyone knows it's deliberate.

Edit: it could also have been done on purpose to keep the CR lower, since bites have higher damage but lower to-hit. I'd have to check the math to falsify that hypothesis.

 

[pukunui]

According to Jeremy Crawford, it's intentional. (Just asked him on Twitter.)

 

[DeathMutant]

I assumed that the designer's intent, for ghouls/ghasts to *not* have proficiency in their bite attacks, is to encourage the DM to have the monsters paralyze their prey (with a claw attack) first then follow-up with a bite attack (with advantage and an auto-critical if it hits). This is similar to how a scorpion typically fights: grab prey with pincers then sting the grappled target. Ever watch a scorpion try to sting first? They are wildly inaccurate.

 

[pukunui]

Could be. Here is the relevant Twitter conversation:

Me: Ghouls'/ghasts' bite attack doesn't appear to have proficiency bonus added in. Intentional or mistake?
Jeremy Crawford: Intentional.
Someone else: is the logic behind this that humanoids using their bite as a weapon are less accurate? Or is it a ghoul thing?
Jeremy Crawford: It's a ghoul/ghast thing. They're exceptionally bad at biting. Monsters sometimes have stat quirks like that.

 

[Uller]

Ever try to hit someone with your face? Admittedly I have not...but I imagine it's way harder than smacking them with my hands. Some animals are made to bite. Wolves and alligators. Some grab with claws first, like cats. It does seem the intent is to paralyze first then bite with advantage. Once paralyzed, a pack of 3 or 4 ghouls can do some serious damage to a PC.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Check out the pic of the ghoul illustrating the Paralysed condition in the PHB. That is one sloppy ass mouth.

 

[pukunui]

Check out the pic of the ghoul illustrating the Paralysed condition in the PHB. That is one sloppy ass mouth.

Yeah, what is with the giant tongues WotC keeps giving ghouls? It's almost like they're supposed to be paralyzing people with their saliva. Come to think of it, that would be a lot more gross than just getting scratched by their dirty claws. I'm sure the thought of some horrible undead creature trying to lick their PC would freak out some of my players at least.

 

[MostlyDm]

I assumed that the designer's intent, for ghouls/ghasts to *not* have proficiency in their bite attacks, is to encourage the DM to have the monsters paralyze their prey (with a claw attack) first then follow-up with a bite attack (with advantage and an auto-critical if it hits). This is similar to how a scorpion typically fights: grab prey with pincers then sting the grappled target. Ever watch a scorpion try to sting first? They are wildly inaccurate.

I think this is precisely it.