gimme a hand with my dm

[SorvahrSpahr]

yup. we didn't use it at the time. We started playing a few years ago and it was the first time someone thought of playing a vampire. We used the regular lvl up. he was playing a sorcerer with his vampire

 

[Zimbel16]

usually it's because this kind of characters tend to become a wee bit too strong. We had a vampire once, and he was too damn strong.

Personal opinion, as long as you're using the level adjustment of +4 (so your LV 1 1/2 fiend is treated as a LV 5 PC for XP purposes), 1/2 fiend is slightly weak for any single purpose. It does give you a broader-based PC, though.

For 4 entire levels, you gain:
Immunity to Poison
A/E/F/C Res 10
DR 5/magic
Weak SR
Str +4, Dex +4, Con +2, Int +4, Cha +2.
Poison 3/day at LV 7
Horrid Wilting 1/day at LV 15
Destuction 1/day at LV 19
Flight (ave, land speed)

And a bunch of fairly weak abilities.

At low levels, some of these abilities (in particular, Flight, Imm to Poison, DR) are very nice. However, the real problem is that effectively, you're starting at LV 5, so you never experience those low levels where the DR and Imm to Poison are wonderful.

Depending on the campaign, continual average Flight could be worth quite a bit (mostly if flight is otherwise expensive/rare). However, assuming that it isn't wonderful in this campaign, you're setting up your PC to be a weak fighter with a bit of spellcasting ability (+4 Str/Dex, +2 Con aren't worth 4 LV), or an even weaker spellcaster with a bit of fighting ability (-4 CL). I guess it would be possible to translate the Int bonus into more skills for a skill monger, but you still need quite a few rogue levels to catch up in skill points, and your maximums will always be lower.


Also note that a 1/2 fiend is far different from a vampire. As a GM, I'd welcome the former with open arms in most campaigns, but veto the latter (which is also a LA of +8). Vampires are rough to kill, and with a LA of +8, they'd be too weak to really contribute much to the party.


As to your initial question, my suggestion would be to recomend starting with what the book suggests, and if your PC is obviously overpowering, agree to tone it down when that occurs. I doubt it will.

 

[IcyCool]

yup. we didn't use it at the time. We started playing a few years ago and it was the first time someone thought of playing a vampire. We used the regular lvl up. he was playing a sorcerer with his vampire

Well then, just talk to your dm about the LA on the Half-fiend and show her that you won't be powerful, you'll suck harder than a Hoover. A 2nd level character with 2nd level hitpoints, 2nd level base attack bonus, and 2nd level class abilities isn't going to be all that helpful in a 6th level party. And if you start any lower than 5th, she'll have to come up with some sort of Savage Species progression for you.

My advice, ask to play a Tiefling instead. That way, you're only down one level instead of four, and you still get the fiendish flavor.

 

[Zimbel16]

we usually start at lvl 4.

Well, then, since 1/2 fiend is +4 LA, my suggestion would be to reduce the power of the race by about 1/4, and generate a LV 1 1/2 fiend. Your first leveling up would then just be converting to the full template. Attempt at a +3 EL version below:

Speed
Your wings are immature. At this level, they merely grant a +8 to jump checks.

Armor Class, Attack, Full Attack, Damage, Special Attacks

Unchanged

Spell-Like Abilities

None.

Special Qualities

Instead of immunity to poison, gain +4 to saves versus poison. Otherwise unchanged.

Abilities

Str +2, Cha +0. Otherwise unchanged.

 

[SorvahrSpahr]

hmm sounds good. let's say one would only retain the natural attacks, smite good, darkvision, the abilities increase and the 3 x p/ day darkness. how much of a LA would that be worth?

Consider the loss of special abilites a punishment for betraying the kin

 

[RigaMortus2]

The flavor text for the Warlock base class (Complete Arcane) appears that they are from a fiendish bloodline. Much like how Sorcerers are from a Draconic bloodline...

Maybe ask him if you can play one of those? If he allows the Warlock though, he might regret not allowing you to just play the Fiendish template...

 

[SorvahrSpahr]

lol how come? I haven't read all the warlock's info, but it doesn't look like a powerhouse

maybe it's just the lack of experience talking

 

[Zimbel16]

hmm sounds good. let's say one would only retain the natural attacks, smite good, darkvision, the abilities increase and the 3 x p/ day darkness. how much of a LA would that be worth?

Consider the loss of special abilites a punishment for betraying the kin

LA is always a guessing game without either analysis or playtesting. However, from the analysis I've done in the past, I'd guess 2, with an outside chance of 3

+4 to an ability score (with no related penalties) is worth roughly 2 levels; everything else you're describing combined is not worth much.

 

[Liquidsabre]

WotC's Savage Progressions articles were great for this sort of stuff. They have the vampire template borken down into levels for example along with several other LA races and templates. They also have the half-fiend broken down into levels as well. Along the same guidelines I modified the half-celestial into levels, the link is in my sig. The article archive can be found at the wizards site here. One of my fav article series.

 

[Question]

Half-fiend/Half-celestial arent very good templates. I tend to ignore DR/magic.....it gets obsolete REALLY fast, and you ALWAYS pay LA for soemthing that doesnt do anything past a certain cut off level. The same goes for SR that maxes out pretty early, or is a flat, low number. It would be fine if the system had a "Hey at level X this ability of the template doesnt do anything for you anymore, so you now have a lower LA". But no, you get stuck with it. Forever.

An extreme example is this : A template with immunity to magical weapons. Below a certain level when you are fighting CR 1 or 2 orcs, you are pretty much invulnerable to physical attacks. Once monsters start showing up with magical natural attacks or weapons, you now have a LA for a template that does absolutely nothing(unless you start mass attacking low level town guards or something).