Give me the complete picture: WP/VP

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I've heard about this system quite often, but I'm not sure I've learned the whole thing. Are there any other aspects about the system I'm missing?

Yes. There are multiple competing systems. Spycraft and D20 Star Wars use quite different wp/vp systems. In Spycraft, damage is not increased, whereas it is in Star Wars.

 

[Denaes]

Sneak attack is the single biggest throrn in the side of the VP/WP system (and the problem I struggled with the most in my ruleset).

Really? To me, guns are the largest thorn in the side of the VP/WP system.

melee weapons & punches & falls can be explained as glancing blows, bruises, scratches, scrapes, etc.

When you get to guns, especially in a game where guns are very prominant, how do you continiously explain how guns are "hitting" but dealing VP. there are just so many side grazes you have before it gets hokey - and explaining a "hit" as a miss (in terms of luck) is also frustrating for players.

I had it come up last game: "What do you mean I missed the player? I hit him didn't I?" and rather than stopping the middle of combat to explain things I just altered the bullet into grazing the guy.

How do you handle this in a modern game?

 

[sinmissing]

How do you handle this in a modern game?

I highly recommend the movie "Hard Boiled". Those guys throw buckets of bullets, and get buckets thrown back at them. You can see the extended combats taking their toal on the main characters, but they hardly get truly "injured".

 

[Denaes]

I highly recommend the movie "Hard Boiled". Those guys throw buckets of bullets, and get buckets thrown back at them. You can see the extended combats taking their toal on the main characters, but they hardly get truly "injured".

So you have to explain to players that their hits won't hit the opponent.

I understand the concept, but it's something that doesn't sit well with a bunch of players.

I could even logically explain it that they're basically allowed to dodge the bullet by getting out of the way and taking VP damage in cuts/bruises/etc. But even then, you can't explain why you're shooting someone who is sitting there in a chair sipping a beer (an hit maybe) totally unaware and your hits are missing. It's not like they're dodging. That would be straight 100% luck in some form or another to keep them from getting shot up.

 

[Iron_Chef]

Dude, it's a game. It's abstract. I see your point about shooting a guy sitting in a lawn chair sipping a beer, LOL, but I still prefer VP/WP to HP. How often do your players come across the BBEG sitting on his front porch in a rocking chair knocking back six-packs? Aren't BBEG's and major NPCs usually found in exciting locations ready for combat? I mean, it's virtually a gaming requirement.

 

[Denaes]

Dude, it's a game. It's abstract. I see your point about shooting a guy sitting in a lawn chair sipping a beer, LOL, but I still prefer VP/WP to HP. How often do your players come across the BBEG sitting on his front porch in a rocking chair knocking back six-packs? Aren't BBEG's and major NPCs usually found in exciting locations ready for combat? I mean, it's virtually a gaming requirement.

It doesn't matter what exactly the person is doing. It could just be a guy standing at a corner waiting for a light to change, an enemy agent working at a terminal across the room or an evil mastermind washing his favorite pet while whistling to herself.

The point is how do you explain that even though you solidly hit a flatfooted character with a gun, it still missed?

I'm not trying to get anyone to say they don't like the WP/VP system. I love it. This is the only part of it that I find wonky and see players having problems with. It makes sense with other weapons, but not so much sense with guns.

I'm just trying to see if anyone has any good ideas for how to explain it without saying "Look it's a game, deal with it. Your hit misses, but his luck is running out. It doesn't make sense, but it doesn't have to".

Personally I'm thinking of just saying that it isn't a hit in any way. Guns are far harder to hit with than melee weapons and only a crit is a solid body hit. Otherwise you got close and scared them, caused them to bang into something dodging/ducking or their luck is flat out just running out.

If you roll high enough to hit so that you get a crit, you actually hit the person. If you roll high enough for damage that you flat out hit. If you beat out their threshold (maybe a Spycraft 2.0 only thing) then you hit for a little WP damage, like getting winged or shot in the hand/leg, etc.

The second part lets most snipers still make hits kinda.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

VP damage due to ranged weapons is easy to explain. How?

Near miss...grazing shot...or using a lot of effort to dodge.

Its just a matter of getting around the idea of 'hit', as, technically, its NOT a hit. Really would be easier if the Vitality damage resulted from something not called 'hit', but I'm not sure what else you could call it.

 

[Iron_Chef]

So... What exactly is an Ankh-Morpork Guard? No offense, I've just been curious about your screen name for years, LOL.

BTW: I goofed about crits dealing double damage in Star Wars. Just like Spycraft, they only deal damage straight past VP to WP. They don't do double damage. However, that's the way we've been playing it, LOL. Much deadlier that way. Maybe we'll keep it.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

So... What exactly is an Ankh-Morpork Guard? No offense, I've just been curious about your screen name for years, LOL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh-Morpork

And

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh-Morpork_City_Watch#History

Now go read some Terry Pratchett books!

 

[Iron_Chef]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh-Morpork

And

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh-Morpork_City_Watch#History

Now go read some Terry Pratchett books!

Huh. Well now. Looks like I can finally get a good night's sleep and stop wondering. Thanks.