Giving d20 Modern a Try...Anything I Should Know?

[Armadillo]

Are there any published Buffy d20M splatbooks, or pet projects, or something out there? A quick Amazon search didn't turn up anything.

One of the described settings in the core book and later supplements is essentially Buffy with the serial numbers filed off (Shadow Chasers?)

Was? I'd love to hear about your lackluster experience with the game, since everything else I have heard so far has been more or less positive. I'd like to hear both sides of the story.

I say "was" because, as many of these comments have suggested, d20M is badly in need of a second edition that updates the rules. WotC, though, has shown little interest in the idea. The lackluster and ineffective official supplements, particularly d20 Future, also didn't help. Thankfully, there are a ton of third-party supplements.

The concept behind d20M is great. The execution just needs some work. In particular, linking the core classes to the attributes was not a good idea. It would be much better to have a narrower list of four core classes built around clear roles. In my experience, char gen is difficult for many players because of the lack of clear roles for most of the core classes and due to the prerequisites for the advanced classes.

SW Saga is a step in the right direction, and I'd love to see a d20M 2d built along those lines.

 

[pawsplay]

If there had been a "d20 Modern 3.5", there is a good chance I would be playing it. I really liked a lot of the basic design. Unfortunately, the game just broke down, in the final evaluation. Talents were too boring, Action Points as a permanently depleting resource was just never going to work, and in taking the flavour out of the Basic Classes they forgot to give back some options such as extra feats so you could build a modern "fighter" or whatever.

Great stuff about d20 Modern:
- Casters as advanced classes
- Modular base classes
- Setting agnostic
- Easy-peasy character creation
- Turning high level spells into lengthy and risky rituals

Unfortunately, the downsides killed it for me, even after working on a d20 Future project (Dawning Star) as a science consultant.

Ten Thousand Bullets (by Crafty Games, the Spycract people) is, I think, what I was hoping for in spirit.

 

[Armadillo]

Ten Thousand Bullets (by Crafty Games, the Spycract people) is, I think, what I was hoping for in spirit.

Many of the d20M players and publishers appear to have moved on to Savage Worlds. Like d20M, it is setting agnostic with easy char gen. Plus, it provides the fast, furious fun.

 

[Greg K]

Many of the d20M players and publishers appear to have moved on to Savage Worlds. Like d20M, it is setting agnostic with easy char gen. Plus, it provides the fast, furious fun.

I have been considering giving Savage Worlds another look. The test drive 6.0 left me lukewarm. However, I bought Thrilling Tales 2e and Mars: Savage edition which iare impressive and there is the announcement of SW version of Darwins World have my curiousity piqued. I like that it doesn't have class/level so there is no BAB tied to progress.

The drawbacks of SW for me are the dice system, a few skills (including some that are lacking) and my love for Blood and Fist, Elements of Magic, the Psychic's Handbook.

 

[Greg K]

SW Saga is a step in the right direction, and I'd love to see a d20M 2d built along those lines.

If I liked the SW: Saga skill system and Force Rules, I might be with you.

 

[coyote6]

FWIW, I tried to like d20 Modern, but I couldn't. We never did a campaign (I'm pretty sure most of my group wouldn't go for it, at all), but I played in several one-shots at cons, and I didn't enjoy it. Even played a short session with Stan! & the TGM guys at Gen Con So Cal - they were great, but not so much the game.

Having to shoot a goon several times just to get him to drop -- and I'm supposed to be dangerous? Good lord, the local gang bangers can shoot better than that.

I'd much rather play GURPS, Savage Worlds, Unisystem, FATE, or the like. d20M just does not work for me, unfortunately. Spycraft 2 seemed better, but I think for a campaign the class-and-levels thing would still bug me.

 

[Vigilance]

This.

Maybe it was the simulationist approach to games that persisted throguh the d20 system. Not a bad thing, mind you, but a complicating factor to a game night. Granted, creating a system for a modern game means simulation.

So is it a bad simulation, or a bad game? Or do the lines blur and break down in RPGs like d20 modern?

This is one of the big disconnects folks have with d20 Modern. As written, the system is most definitely neither a bad simulation, nor is it a bad game. People see "modern" and immediately want the game to be something it's not.

And I can't even say it was a marketing failure, because Wizards told everyone who would stand still for 45 seconds or more what the game was.

There are many popular modern TV shows (Buffy, Angel, Charmed etc.) and movies (Evil Dead, Army of Darkness) were in fact D&D in the modern world, with the serial numbers filed off.

What do these shows have in common? Well, they frequently feature low-level characters that are somewhat generic, though easily identifiable as "Strong" or "Smart", who progress into full-fledged fantasy game tropes as they "rise in level".

Willow starts as the smart nerd and ends as the powerful Wizard. Ash starts as dumb S-Mart employee and ends as a warrior on an epic quest to retrieve a magical tome.

If you want to run vanilla d20 Modern, then the Buffy TV show follows an almost perfect arc for you. Buffy and Giles started out in advanced classes, at a higher level, while Xander was a Dedicated Hero, Willow a Smart Hero, Cordelia a Charismatic Hero.

Over the course of the show, Willow pretty obviously transitions into a Mage AdC, while Xander seems to stay in basic classes, though definitely rising in levels (he soaks up a TON of punishment- so maybe transitioning to Tough Hero later on).

So while not perfect, the game does what it sets out to do, presents over the top modern fantasy in a very specific model.

The problem is, unlike fantasy, "modern" isn't really a genre, it's LOTS AND LOTS of genres, so d20M both benefits and suffers from the same syndrome as "pulp games".

 

[pawsplay]

Having to shoot a goon several times just to get him to drop -- and I'm supposed to be dangerous? Good lord, the local gang bangers can shoot better than that.

Goon inflation was pretty bad. First, the game stated that an experienced NPC was pretty much 4th level. Also, assuming a Stormtrooper or a viking is equivalent in many respects to the Marine described above, they need to be at least 3rd level to have the right number of feats. End result: about 4d8+8 hit points, or more than twenty hit points on average. And damage in d20 Modern is only just barely higher than in D&D, and there are fewer damage boosters. Your best best is to hope the goon fails his Massive Damage save, but of course, since he's 4th level, he probably has a +5 or +6 Fortitude, and that's assuming you reliably beat his Con with one bullet. High crit ranges are rare, too. And the Gunslinger class offers no bonus to damage except via action points.

 

[jonrog1]

You know, True20 really solved all the problems in d20M. If you don't want to take a run at Savage Worlds, I'd recommend True20.

 

[Greg K]

You know, True20 really solved all the problems in d20M. If you don't want to take a run at Savage Worlds, I'd recommend True20.

How about statting out the Leverage team?