Giving Fighters Another Class Skill

[Malar's Cow]

I like the idea of giving a fighter 1 skill every 4-5 levels as a class skill. The fighter can choose which skill he wants to have as a class skill based on the character concept. Want a mililary tactician who studies past battles to learn about tactics and strategy? Choose Knowledge: History. Want a bounty hunter/loner/self-sufficient master-of-his-own-destiny? Choose survival or heal. Want a reconaissance or forward-observer type of character? Choose spot or listen.

Remember that ANYONE can already use spot and listen. They are simply based on your ability scores, and represent your natural ability to see and hear your surroundings. If you want your fighter to have better-than-average spot and listen skills, make Wisdom one of your higher attributes (but don't complain about your 9 Dexterity; it's all about choices).

Fighters are all about combat. Skills are the province of the rogue and bard, and IMO fighters are just about right-sized when it comes to class skills and skill points. Fighters get their props through bonus combat feats, which no other class even comes close to getting. A 6th level human fighter gets seven (count 'em, seven) feats, four of which are bonus combat feats. A human cleric at the same level only has four feats. This, more than anything else, makes up for the low skill points and limited class skills available to a fighter, IMO.

 

[Wolf72]

can you take 10 on spot and listen? ... if so then it's not really necessary for the sentry types to take a this for a class skill, it would be nice, but not necessary ... for the most part a roll of 10 plus mod should be adequate for someone on guard duty.

now, if you're in a high falootin sentry position, you may be required to have a certain profiency in spot/listen.

so I'm gonna stick with: fighters can choose any one skill and designate it as a class skill (at any time in their career, doesn't have to be first lvl).

 

[DarkMaster]

Profession is the only one acceptable. Noble will take aristocrat level to gain diplomacy, sailor rogue level for use rope, balance and the others, Woodsmen will take ranger level for survival and warrior will take fighter level for improving their fighting skills.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I like the fighting schools idea,
where you catagorize your fighter into a specific role and then get 2 class skills from that role, at the price of a feat.
Or extra class skills taught by each culture,
I voted for profession - cause this really is an everyman skill.
One of my barbarian cultures is required to take Profession - sailing
but deciding they can't take proffession mining (humanoids accepted) is a no-brainer.

 

[Li Shenron]

I just think sacrificing realism for a minor balance issue is a poor choice.

I am not the one you need to tell

Basically when someone is concerned by a skill missing from a class list, the argument is always "why cannot this character spend time as everybody else and learn this skill at top?". But skills in 3ed work this way, that each class not only gets a different amount of skill points but also a shorter/longer list of skills which are less expensive and get to higher max.

By realism, a couple solutions would be to either drop all class skill lists entirely and everyone buys which skills he wants, or give a number of skills to be chosen as class skills.

The rationale behind having class skills is that while you are "living your career" in a class you have easier access to some training compared to others. You can still learn the others but it takes more effort. I understand that some players are frustrated by this... Also in the case of Listen and Spot those are perfect skills to be cross-class because you don't necessarily need top ranks to make them useful.

I know this is a fantasy game and not subjetct to all the rules of reality, but when something defies logic. Perhaps instead of penalizing the other classses, the "observant" classes should get a bonus to this skill?

Defies logic??? I cannot say for sure, but AFAIK a typical Fighter would have no interest in staying on guard, he's a Fighter and not a Ranger and most likely he'd think of guarding duties as wasted time because he's not fighting or training. A Fighter who spends most time improving his guarding duties he's not levelling up as a fighter. Obviously I haven't been in the army so I may be wrong...

 

[pbd]

Defies logic??? I cannot say for sure, but AFAIK a typical Fighter...

What does AFAIK mean?

And I stand by my arguements; A fighter that doesn't/can't pay attetion to their surroundings is a dead fighter.

pbd

 

[Wolf72]

What does AFAIK mean?

And I stand by my arguements; A fighter that doesn't/can't pay attetion to their surroundings is a dead fighter.

pbd

as far as i know ...

and anyone can take 10 on spot/listen ... which makes typical spot checks fairly easy. ... it won't help in the middle of combat or when you're frantically looking for something.

but making a listen check a night in fog bank for the sound of mounted knights becomes feasilbe for someone with no ranks in listen.

I'm not sure if you can take 20 on untrained skills, if so ... if you're willing to spend game time looking for something you can ...

edit: since we're in house rules anyway ... if the action in quesion is something quintesencially (sp) fightery I'd let thePC add their fighter level to the result too

 

[Li Shenron]

And I stand by my arguements; A fighter that doesn't/can't pay attetion to their surroundings is a dead fighter.

Well, that applies to everyone If you just think it's should be class skill because it's useful, I think it's more useful for weak characters like wizards and sorcerers, who are dead much earlier than the fighter if they are caught by an ambush.

If you want to add S&L to the fighter class, just do it and it won't be a problem. I don't like doing it based on these arguments although they make very sense, but the reason is that you can apply similar arguments to very many skills for many classes, and if a player gets more skills this way, then the others should get some as well. Also the question was about giving the figther one or two more skills, and I suggested Heal (and possibly Tumble) because IMO they are more often parts of fighters' training than spotting and listening.

 

[pbd]

Well, that applies to everyone If you just think it's should be class skill because it's useful, I think it's more useful for weak characters like wizards and sorcerers, who are dead much earlier than the fighter if they are caught by an ambush.

If you want to add S&L to the fighter class, just do it and it won't be a problem. I don't like doing it based on these arguments although they make very sense, but the reason is that you can apply similar arguments to very many skills for many classes, and if a player gets more skills this way, then the others should get some as well. Also the question was about giving the figther one or two more skills, and I suggested Heal (and possibly Tumble) because IMO they are more often parts of fighters' training than spotting and listening.

My basic point (and I know this is a little outside the scope of this thread, but the discussion kind of went that way) is that spot and listen are essentially seeing and hearing, and everyone (that isn't deaf or mute) can do that. I think all classes should have spot and listen as class skills as it doesn't require training to see and hear. The player can choose if they want to assign, sometimes very precious, skill points to those skills. I think that some classes are trained to be very aware of their surroundings (ranger and rogue especially) and those base classes should get a bonus to these skills (maybe +2 at first level and +1 at every 4 levels after that, but that is neither here nor there for now) to reflect extra training in how to use those skills more effectively.

Sorry if that is a little off-topic, but it does apply to fighters also .

pbd

 

[pbd]

sorry

sorry about that