D&D General Gladiator = Weapon Master

[THEMNGMNT]

I dig the Gladiator, the new Fighter subclass being tested in Unearthed Arcana. I like the flavor but I especially like the mechanics.

I've heard some say the Gladiator is just a Battle Master lite, and that its Brutality features should just be Battle Master maneuvers.

I disagree.

In fact, I believe the Gladiator has (inadvertently?) opened up an entirely new design space. What makes Brutality unique is that all the features are tied to weapon masteries. No other fighter subclass has ever done this. This is brand new. This is exciting.

The Gladiator is better at weapon masteries than any other subclass. It is the master of weapon mastery. You might even call it...a Weapon Master.

Now imagine a Weapon Master subclass that has a menu of 10+ maneuvers to choose from, all of which give new ways to play with weapon masteries. It's like Brutality -- but bigger. This would create a subclass that's an alternative to the Battle Master. Like the Battle Master, the Weapon Master would offer a lot of choices -- but new and distinct choices.

How cool would that be?

 

[Remathilis]

The 2e gladiator was proficient in all weapons and picking a weapon with a proficiency slot granted them weapon specialization in the weapon..I kinda feel this class is trying to emulate that.

 

[mellored]

No, they are pretty similar.
Just unwrap the weapon mastery to compare.


Level 3 Battlemaster with Trip Attack and a war hammer
1d10+Str + push 10' + save or fall prone + 1d8
Vs
Level 3 Gladiator with Stumble and a war hammer
1d10+Str + push 10' + save or fall prone + can take either a bonus action or action.


Battlemaster with Distracting Stike
Advantage on the next attack (ally) + 1d8
Vs
Gladiator with Bluff
Advantage on the next attack (you), advantage on your next save.



They aren't exactly the same. But you could easily turn any of the Gladiator things into Battlemaster manuever instead.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

That's adjacent to my point.

They could be Battle Master maneuvers.

But they shouldn't be.

A whole new set of maneuvers based upon weapon masteries would just be too much. The BM already has enough toys to play with. Giving them more would not only be unbalancing, it would be bad design. Too many options that players won't ever be able to select and enjoy.

On the flipside, a new subclass based on all-new maneuvers focused on weapon masteries? That sounds awesome.

 

[Horwath]

Gladiator needs more work. A lot more.

It's not even Battlemaster light, it's battlemaster-but sucks.

more or less same features but usage and DC keyed of tertiary stat for a fighter at best. maybe even 5th ability in priority order.

another example of 2024 obsession of linking of ability usage with ability modifier.
it needs to be removed from the game. every instance of it.
number of usages needs to be keyed to proficiency bonus of fixed depending on CLASS level.

 

[mellored]

A whole new set of maneuvers based upon weapon masteries would just be too much

Sure, but they aren't really new. They are rehashed.

Topped = Trip Attack
Vex = Distracting Strike
Sap = Goading Attack
Cleave = Sweeping Attack
Push = Pushing Attack
Slow = ... this one doesn't have an equivalent.

Really, it's the non-weapon-masteris add-ons that make it at least somewhat different. Advantage on your next save, restricting action or bonus action, disadvantage on next save are all new.

Though none of that really does anything to "awe and intimidate the audience". There's nothing close to charm or frightened people who see you fight.

IMO, Gladator should be something like...

Brutality: When you kill a creature or critically hit, choose either Shock or Awe.
Shock: Each creature of your choice who can see you must make a Wisdom save or be frightened until the start of your next turn.
Awe: Each creature of your choice who can see you gains temporary hit points equal to half your fighter level + Cha.

more or less same features but usage and DC keyed of tertiary stat for a fighter at best

The DC only applies to Topple. None of the other stuff has a save.

And the level 18 feature only is used on a failed save, so can just spam it 3+ times a turn until it works. Making DC mostly irrelevant, assuming you don't have 20 Cha anyways.

 

[sevenbastard]

I will start by saying that calling the sub class a Gladiator is disappointing for me. Weapon Master is a more generic name and I hate when a class gets pigeon holled as a profession. Barbarians will fight in the arena, othe fighter sub classes will fight in the arena, all will be Gladiators but not have the sub class.

On the subclass. Im all for diffrent ways to make a fighter that doesn't involve magic. More martial only classes the better so I can build my own low magic version of the game.

 

[Valetudo]

Well this is a subclass for darksun so gladiators is fine. Yes other classes can be gladiators.

 

[Minigiant]

Nah.

IMO, the Gladiator and the Weapon Master are similar but very different in style.


The Gladiator should be like a WWE/WCW wrester who uses there Charisma to feed off their allies, enemies, and the crowd to empower their offense and defense. It would be more focused on raw power over control.

The Weapon Master should be situation agnostic because they mastered their weapon. They should be Intelligence or Wisdom based. It would be balanced focus on raw power and control.

 

[Valetudo]

Nope