Glass jaw of PC defenses

[Runestar]

So where exactly is the nightmare scenario? What is the monster power that breaks the game when it auto-hits? I'm not seeing it.

I am not saying that it is necessarily a bad thing for a monster to auto-hit, but rather if it should be able to auto-hit, as it would appear to make a mockery of the PC's efforts at boosting his defenses. Granted, your defenses improve automatically, and the cloak boosts all defenses evenly...

I'm having trouble getting your +50.

Shield adds another +2, +1 with appropriate mastery. Okay, I cheated a little by rounding off 49 to 50 to make it sound nicer...

 

[Branduil]

With a cloak, your defenses at level 30 will be minimum 31. Add maybe a +3 modifier on your worst save. That's an auto-hit.

 

[theNater]

I am not saying that it is necessarily a bad thing for a monster to auto-hit, but rather if it should be able to auto-hit, as it would appear to make a mockery of the PC's efforts at boosting his defenses. Granted, your defenses improve automatically, and the cloak boosts all defenses evenly...

But the only defense that monsters get an auto-hit on is the one the PC hasn't been boosting. The others are right in line with where they should be(giving the monsters about a 50% chance to hit)

Shield adds another +2, +1 with appropriate mastery. Okay, I cheated a little by rounding off 49 to 50 to make it sound nicer...

I don't think assuming shields is reasonable, as only 3 of the 8 classes in the PHB are proficient with shields by default, and all of those classes have reason to go for two-handed weapons.

 

[Kraydak]

But the only defense that monsters get an auto-hit on is the one the PC hasn't been boosting. The others are right in line with where they should be(giving the monsters about a 50% chance to hit)

Stat boosting=+3 over 30 levels. It won't take an auto-hit into 50% territory.

Class based defense boosts+initial stat variation will give you about a 5 point spread in initial defenses. That is, interestingly, also about the maximum spread (on a d20) where you don't have one guy either almost auto-succeeding or almost auto-failing. This means that you really don't want the lvl 4/8 type stat boosts to be limited to two stats (because that increases the spread from tolerable to very problematic). Making those stat boosts universal (like the lvl 11 one) poses no significant power-balance issues because it does not boost maximum output (people already are boosting the stats that they use on offense).

 

[keterys]

It is a flavor penalty, however. You might be better off giving boosts to 3 stats, instead.

 

[Saeviomagy]

There are a fair number of defense boosting, defensive immediate interrupt and monster attack reducing powers. It seems to me like it should often be possible to either
a) Have balanced defenses and boost them up to "the monster hits me sometimes" regions with the defense boosting or attack reducing powers
b) Have unbalanced defenses and use attack-canceling powers when your weak defense is targeted unexpectedly.

 

[theNater]

Stat boosting=+3 over 30 levels. It won't take an auto-hit into 50% territory.

Remember, we're not dealing with just stat-boosting. We're dealing with stat-boosting plus initial difference. The resulting 5-8 difference can take an auto-hit into 50-60% territory. The boosted stats that were initially high are about where they should be, the unboosted stats that were initially low are in autohit territory.

 

[Runestar]

I don't think assuming shields is reasonable, as only 3 of the 8 classes in the PHB are proficient with shields by default, and all of those classes have reason to go for two-handed weapons.

It just costs 1-2 feats. At the moment, there aren't really that many "must-take" feats.

Plus, I don't think it is fair to expect say, a brutal scoundrel rogue to boost his mental stats when he does not get any benefits out of it save for a slightly higher will defense. I guess in these cases, it might be better to just suck it up, stick to your core competencies and hope for the best, as it may be the lesser of 2 evils.

 

[Fedifensor]

Shield adds another +2, +1 with appropriate mastery. Okay, I cheated a little by rounding off 49 to 50 to make it sound nicer...

Wizards and swordmages can both hit 50 (or higher with situational modifiers). Granted, those are specialized builds that sacrifice some other things to make it happen, but it is possible.

Example: The Iron Mage

 

[theNater]

It just costs 1-2 feats. At the moment, there aren't really that many "must-take" feats.

It also costs weapon choice. Rangers and rogues are likely to go for the two-weapon family(with one AC point, not two, for Two-Weapon Defense). Clerics, fighters, paladins, and warlords can all get good value out of two-handed weapons. Warlocks and wizards may not have the str. Every class has a reason to avoid shields, and some classes have no reason to get shields. We can't assume everyone has a shield in our average AC calculations.

Plus, I don't think it is fair to expect say, a brutal scoundrel rogue to boost his mental stats when he does not get any benefits out of it save for a slightly higher will defense. I guess in these cases, it might be better to just suck it up, stick to your core competencies and hope for the best, as it may be the lesser of 2 evils.

That's been my recommendation all along.