Gleemax

Oh I disagree. The concept behind Gleemax was awesome! It's the execution that was abysmal.

If someone with the right budget, experience, and skills could actually make the original Gleemax concept work, I'd sign up in a heatbeat! But I won't hold my breath.

But what was the concept? I sometimes heard it was a place you could go "to play games" whatever that meant. I also heard it was a place to "blog and share" whatever that meant. I think this is what people are referring too when there wasn't a clear mission for the project.

I would go there and be confused, click on "games" and see "coming soon!" (never a good sign).

Forums seemed to be what it had to offer which I guess I'm ok with. I mean, I stick around here for the good conversation and the distracting Evony ads.
 

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Alot of websites/webboards arent comercial enterprises. Which worried more than a few people.
Facebook and MySpace are most definitely commercial enterprises.

I will also point out that when Facebook tried to change the terms to say they owned the pictures you put up on facebook, there was a huge outroar and they backed down from it.
Well, considering the Gleemax terms of service did not say that WotC "owned" your IP, but that you were granting them the same exact licenses that you grant Facebook and MySpace, I'd say your argument is weak-sauce.
 

Considering Gleemax is dead, one would think Wizard's would want people to forget about it. Why are they still using the domain for their forums?
 

I'd like to post something in rebuttal - here's Facebook's terms of service, first bullet point in "Sharing Your Content and Information. Login | Facebook



You'll note that it reads pretty close to what Gleemax's old terms read. Indeed, apart from specific wording, IIRC it's identical.

Uhm no actually, its not, here's some items I dug out of gleemax:

Originally Posted by Gleemax Site
One other aspect of our Terms of Use and Terms of Service that we worked out recently is our stand with respect to user-generated content. Right now our policy is that we own anything that you post to our websites. However, we've decided to modify that policy. Once gleemax goes live and our new Terms of Use and Terms of Service kick in, you will retain ownership of any content you post (well, any content that you owned in the first place, anyway. And, of course, you are prohibited from violating or infringing the rights of others.). The one thing you do grant to us by posting your content onto our site is the right to use it as we please. So, if you post (for example) an awesome Magic card or a D&D feat that we think is cool, we're allowed to put it into one of our books, card sets, etc.

And as someone questions:

Please note there are two pieces to this - 1) we can use whatever you post and 2) you post it here, you can not "publish" it elsewhere. These two demandments work hand in hand, the second supporting the first.

I find both worth thinking about. Here's why. On Canonfire.com, I have posted over 100 articles that have to do with Greyhawk. Some are Wotc IP heavy and some are Wotc IP light. I have on my hard drive a number of additional articles that I've written but not yet posted to Canonfire to include a 300 page mini-GH setting that has taken me over a year and a half to write. Now, I look at Gleemax' terms and conditions.

First Point, I have zero issue with Wotc using what I post. Greyhawk is a dead setting for all intents and purposes outside of Living Greyhawk and were Wotc to want to use my mini-setting I'd be pleased as punch because that would mean Greyhawk was being revived. I'm also going to imagine that if they were interested enough to want touse what I've written they would toss me a by-line as otherwise the next guy might steer well clear of Gleemax. So, no problem with the first point.

Second Point, if I drop my 300 page mini-GH setting on Gleemax, can I also post it to Canonfire? Arguably, reposting to Canonfire would be electronic publishing, just not for a profit. It would violate Gleemax policy as I read it and quote it above. This I would have a problem with.

I would like and would have every intention of using Gleemax. But I will not abandon Canonfire for Gleemax. I would like to use both.

Imagining that my reading of the "no publishing elsewhere" language is correct, I have a problem with Gleemax and I think I'm one of the fan creators that Gleemax would like to have participate, even though my interest is in lowly Greyhawk. I'd like to see clarification on this point.

Does Wotc mean, "not published elsewhere for profit?" That would clear matters up for me as I do fan creations as a hobby and for free.

One thought that comes to mind is that if ANY other publication is forbidden after posting to Gleemax, maybe I skate if I "publish" to Canonfire first and only AFTER that post to Gleemax. Arguably, I'm within the rules as I read them.

I'd be happy to post creative material to Gleemax, happy to let Wotc be able to use it, happy not to make a dime but I would not be happy to have my work be Gleemax exclusive.

Unlike your facebook example, nowhere in there does the IP you posted there expire, where as with facebook their ownership of IP expires when you cancel. And again with the change in terms facebook tried to use with photos- them owning it even if you do terminate, didnt fly.

You retain ownership, but can neevr actualy publish it elsewhere. They can use it any way they want. And as far as I seen, it never terminates.

You can say its weak sauce, but from where I'm standing its very different from Facebook or otehr "standard boilerplates" you keep suggesting.
 

Considering Gleemax is dead, one would think Wizard's would want people to forget about it. Why are they still using the domain for their forums?


That is what prompted me to start this thread. It does seem strange, unless there is some intention of reviving it in some form.
 


I was heavily involved in Gleemax from the start (I ran the featured news blog for 26 weeks on the Gleemax blogs and was involved in just about everything involving Gleemax) so I may be able to shed some light on the subject.

Gleemax was intended to be a "MySpace for Gamers" that included blog and forum functions. It was also supposed to include a game portal to play games such as Axis and Allies and RoboRally online as well as including original games, such as Uncivilized: The Goblin Game.

The first glimpses of Gleemax were through a viral marketing campaign and a new section of the WotC forums. That's where I came in.

This part is speculation on my part, but I believe that Gleemax and D&DI were meant to go hand in hand as certain elements of the planned tools for D&DI were meant to be accessible via Gleemax and vice versa, such as player profiles and the Game Table.

WotC also put together a "Gleemax Advisory Board" which included two winners of the Ultimate Gamer Contest and several industry luminaries, though the board only ever had one meeting, shortly after GenCon 2007 and a few of the industry folks appointed to the board, such as Monte Cook, didn't attend.

At any rate, not too long after the Gleemax forums popped up, the Gleemax Blogs Alpha Site came along. The first of several mistakes was at this stage of the game because the developers chose to run a public Alpha, which meant the blog functions were far from complete and extraordinarily glitchy.

Still, Gleemax Alpha did feature several WotC developer blogs, which were something of a secondary source of 4th Edition news and tidbits, prior to 4E's release. Of the various game companies invited to use Gleemax, only Chris Pramas of Green Ronin ever posted with anything approaching regularity.

The old WotC forums were also moved on to the Gleemax server at this time and a Volunteer Community Lead program was initiated by the community team of the time (Gamer Zer0 and Solice).

Gamer Zer0 also began running a podcast, Gamer Radio Zer0, which eventually evolved into a video podcast. As with Gleemax, GRZ's original intent was to cover the entire industry, but it evolved into an advertising vehicle for WotC.

Much of the ill will toward Gamer Zer0 came about due to a "out with the old, in with the new" philosophy. Community initiatives predating Gleemax, such as the community magazine Knowledge Arcana and the online convention known as UnCon were given the axe, with nothing put forth to replace them. Eventually, the VCL program took it upon themselves to reinstate those initiatives themselves, though in the case of KA, the effort eventually backfired.

The Game Portal managed to get online, powered by Game Table Online but it was too little too late as the plug was pulled on Gleemax shortly thereafter, with the games hosted on the Gleemax Games Portal moving to GTO.

Gamer Zer0 was let go just a few days after GenCon 2008. Randy Buehler, who was essentially in charge of the Gleemax project, was moved to D&DI before being let go in the next round of layoffs, along with Solice (the better liked member of the community management team).

Much of the content and organization for the Gleemax Blogs and Gleemax forums came from non-WotC employees, the first members of the Volunteer Community Lead program, of which I was a part. Most of us abandoned ship when the writing on the wall became too obvious to ignore.

As to why the plug was pulled on Gleemax, Greg Leeds from Hasbro came in as head of WotC sometime after Gleemax Alpha went live. It was around this time that focus shifted to getting D&DI up and running, with Gleemax taking a back seat and eventually getting shut down altogether.

As for why the forums are still "forums.gleemax.com" all of WotC's various online endeavors (Gleemax, forums, D&DI, and, I believe, Magic Online) converted to a single login system during Gleemax and that aspect of the software remains. They'll need to move everything (again) in order to switch it back to "forums.wizards.com" or whatever.

Hope that sheds some light on things. Please keep in mind that a) I'm not a WotC employee and never have been and b) I'm no longer a VCL either (I was one of the last of the original Gleemax group to abandon ship, just a month ago).
 
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Thanks for shedding some light on the events, Crazy Monkey - it was very informative. It's nice to get something approaching an insider's view of what happened.
 

I was heavily involved in Gleemax from the start (I ran the featured news blog for 26 weeks on the Gleemax blogs and was involved in just about everything involving Gleemax) so I may be able to shed some light on the subject.

Perhaps you can help me out, or shed some light on the nature of my problem.

In January of 2008 I first tried to sign up for and log into Gleemax. After six months of failed attempts and alot of frustration that included at least a dozen emails with their tech people and two phone calls, the final one lasted a full hour, I finally gave up.

The problem was that I could not migrate my account.

I just received an email today from Gleemax saying that it had been a year since I had been at the site, and that my account would be deactivated if I did not go back in. So I sent for a new password, then ran into the same migration problem.

What is the issue with migration? I have never seen that at another forum.

How many other people had similar problems?
 

A lot of folks had trouble with the account migration thing. However, that e-mail you referred was actually another, more recent error. Everyone with a WotC forums account got that e-mail. The powers that be over there have since made a post telling folks to disregard it.
 

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