Goblin gods (Khurgorbaeyag, Nomog-Geaya, and Bargrivyek)

[Krishnath]

The problem is that back in the day (At least according to what I have heard) the assassin was a class, and Khur was mentioned in the document to have levels of that class, of course that could be replaced with levels of rogue. But if we ignore prestige classes (or rather limiting them to ascended mortals, which IMHO is better than ignoring them), I think that giving him the classes you suggested should work. Also go with the illusionist class as one of his domains is that of trickery.

As for Nomog I don't really see how the patron of the hobgoblins would have a sneaky class such as rogue. IMHO a pure cleric/fighter would be a better choice.

Barg - Bard could actually work, and I know for a fact that goblins love music. (Particullary horns and drums...)

Later,

 

[BOZ]

The problem is that back in the day (At least according to what I have heard) the assassin was a class, and Khur was mentioned in the document to have levels of that class, of course that could be replaced with levels of rogue. But if we ignore prestige classes (or rather limiting them to ascended mortals, which IMHO is better than ignoring them), I think that giving him the classes you suggested should work. Also go with the illusionist class as one of his domains is that of trickery.

so, illusionist instead of sorcerer? i think i could work that out.

As for Nomog I don't really see how the patron of the hobgoblins would have a sneaky class such as rogue. IMHO a pure cleric/fighter would be a better choice.

i do understand your reservations, but i am concerned about the lesser goblin gods not having higher levels in fighter than their big boss. is there another way to work this out (such as a different third standard class) or should i just bite the bullet and go F20/C20?

Barg - Bard could actually work, and I know for a fact that goblins love music. (Particullary horns and drums...)

bard it is then.

 

[BOZ]

actually, MM page 120...

"A hobgoblins' favored class is fighter, and hobgoblin leaders tend to be fighters or fighter/rogues."

 

[Krishnath]

Damn, you are fast.

Hmm... I missed that part of the hobgoblins, I guess Clr15/Ftr15/Rog10 it is then (or something similar...)

Later (again...),

 

[BOZ]

ok, how about these for ability scores:

Khur - 31/29/29/25/22/29
Nomog - 32/27/30/26/24/29
Barg - 27/26/26/27/27/32

 

[Krishnath]

Looks good to me.

 

[BOZ]

so, based on the above, i have calculated their hit points:

Khur: 20d8+180 (outsider) plus 14d10+126 (Ftr) plus 9d8+81 (Clr) plus 9d6+81 (Rog) plus 8d4+72 (Ill) (997 hp)
Nomog: 20d8+200 (outsider) plus 15d10+150 (Ftr) plus 15d8+150 (Clr) plus 10d6+100 (Rog) (1,090 hp)
Barg: 20d8+160 (outsider) plus 16d8+128 (Clr) plus 13d10+104 (Ftr) plus 11d6+88 (Brd) (964 hp)



ok, let's see if i got this right. correct my math, please, if i got it wrong, and notify me of anything i forgot or mixed up.

Skills points:
Khur would get 300 (20-HD outsider) + 153 (Ftr 14) + 81 (Clr 9) + 135 (Rog 9) + 72 (Ill 8) = 741 total skill points.
Nomog would get 320 (20-HD outsider) + 180 (Ftr 15) + 150 (Clr 15) + 160 (Rog 10) = 810 total skill points.
Barg would get 320 (20-HD outsider) + 190 (Clr 16) + 130 (Ftr 13) + 132 (Brd 11) = 772 total skill points.


Feats:
Khur would have 5 (20-HD outsider) +14 (40 character levels) +8 (Ftr bonus feats) + scribe scroll and 1 bonus metamagic feat (Illusionist bonus) for a total of 29 feats.
Nomog would have 5 (20-HD outsider) +14 (40 character levels) +8 (Ftr bonus feats) for a total of 27 feats.
Barg would have 5 (20-HD outsider) +14 (40 character levels) +7 (Ftr bonus feats) for a total of 26 feats.

Base Attack Bonus:
Khur would have an attack bonus of +20 (20-HD outsider) +10 (divine bonus) -1 (size) +14 (Fighter) +6 (Cleric) +6 (Rogue) +4 (Illusionist), for a total BAB of +59.
Nomog would have an attack bonus of +20 (20-HD outsider) +10 (divine bonus) -1 (size) +15 (Fighter) +11 (Cleric) +7 (Rogue), for a total BAB of +62.
Khur would have an attack bonus of +20 (20-HD outsider) +10 (divine bonus) +12 (Cleric) +13 (Fighter) +8 (Bard), for a total BAB of +63.

Saves:
Khur:
Fort: +12 (outsider) +9 (Con) +10 (divine) +9 (Ftr) +6 (Clr) +3 (Rog) +2 (Ill) = +51
Ref: +12 (outsider) +9 (Dex) +10 (divine) +4 (Ftr) +3 (Clr) +6 (Rog) +2 (Ill) = +46
Will: +12 (outsider) +6 (Wis) +10 (divine) +4 (Ftr) +6 (Clr) +3 (Rog) +6 (Ill) = +47
Nomog:
Fort: +12 (outsider) +10 (Con) +10 (divine) +9 (Ftr) +9 (Clr) +3 (Rog) = +53
Ref: +12 (outsider) +8 (Dex) +10 (divine) +5 (Ftr) +5 (Clr) +7 (Rog) = +47
Will: +12 (outsider) +7 (Wis) +10 (divine) +5 (Ftr) +9 (Clr) +3 (Rog) = +46
Barg:
Fort: +12 (outsider) +8 (Con) +10 (divine) +10 (Clr) +8 (Ftr) +3 (Brd) = +51
Ref: +12 (outsider) +8 (Dex) +10 (divine) +5 (Clr) +4 (Ftr) +7 (Brd) = +46
Will: +12 (outsider) +8 (Wis) +10 (divine) +10 (Clr) +4 (Ftr) +7 (Brd) = +51

 

[Krishnath]

For one, the number of feats they recieve are off by one as outsiders get 1 feat + 1 feat for every for HD. Therefore a 20HD outsider gets 6 feats. It's in the MM2.

And again you do the BAB and saves wrong (Yes I know it takes time to learn, but hey, nobody is perfect, not even me )

Their correct BAB should be +50 (+20 outsider, +10 divine bonus, +20 epic character levels.) to this you add the appopriate size and ability modifiers.

Their correct base saves should be +42 (+12 outsider, +10 divine bonus, +20 epic character levels.) To this you add the appopriate ability and feat modifiers, as applicable.

The skill points on the other hand, look correct.

 

[BOZ]

For one, the number of feats they recieve are off by one as outsiders get 1 feat + 1 feat for every for HD. Therefore a 20HD outsider gets 6 feats. It's in the MM2.

hmm, the info i have says they get 1 feat, then +1 for every 4 extra hit dice, which is what i've been going on. was this changed in MM2?


for BAB and saves, where does this blanket +20 come from anyway? are all the old bonuses replaced by a +20? if this is the case, it seems they get short-changed sometimes (although sometimes it's an improvement). you've got to tell me exactly where to find this before i'm going to do it that way.

are the hit points ok?

 

[Krishnath]

Sitting with the MM2 in front of me (O.K. It's actually to my right, but that's not the point.) it clearly says under the outsider entry on page 9.

Feats: 1 + 1 per 4 HD.

I think it has always been this way, and the entry in the MM was a typo. I'm sure it's one of things they will fix in the revision...

As for the BAB's and saves, and I have mentioned this before, look on 'Table 1-1: Epic Saves and Epic Attack Bonuses' on page 6 of your ELH. You do have the ELH right? I mentioned it back in the Mags thread. But to make a long story short, take the number of epic character levels (above level 20, since these here have 20 outsider HD, that means all of them) and divide them by 2 to get their EAB (Epic Attack Bonus) and their Epic Save bonuses. Since these deities have 40 character levels, that means an EAB of +20, and a save bonus of +20.
Edit: By the way, it is also mentioned on page 26 of Deities and Demigods.

The thing is, without the ELH, one can't make normal non-draconic deities.