Goblin Picador

[Kwalish Kid]

Oh my god do I love this critter. I never thought I could be excited about a harpoon!

If this is new weapons at work then I can't wait to see the rest. The harpooned ability is quite cool, and kinda useful in a pseudo-marking sort of way (though of course not the same). It also ties up the enemy's action, which is always great.

I just deeply hope that other weapons have cool utilitarian concepts, as I see tons of uses for this ability, which is subtle and really minor at best.

I love the picador, too, and I've already figured out an encounter where the PCs have to cross logs where these guys will come in handy. Heh heh.

 

[Lizard]

The way I see it is that the wounds have been sutured and healed in the down time. You may not be at 100% but the 'GAME' allows you to play as if you are so that the 'PLAYERS' are not discouraged by a system that basically 'REQUIRES' that a cleric should do 'NOTHING' but play healing battery.

So to re-iterate, in 3.0/3.5 to heal to full overnight 'REQUIRED' a healer who has saved 'ALMOST ALL' his/her spells to heal you (or downtime in which the players/characters really do nothing), and in 4 you are allowed to not 'MAKE' a 'PLAYER' play a healing battery and this is a 'BAD THING'?

(The bold is my way of stressing certain points, it is not yelling, more like finger quotes in a conversation.)

If they want to explicitly make hit points cuts/bruises/exhaustion/stress, then, they should not build mechanics into the game which imply explicit wounds.

Suppose I have a monster called the Hobgoblin Executioner who wields a Great Big Axe. He has a per encounter power which slices off a limb, with the effect of you drop anything you were holding and take 2d10 damage. The game effect is 'drop items and take damage', but the flavor text is 'the hobgoblin chops your arm off'.

Tell me your SOD isn't fried when you take a healing surge and grow it right back. (Assuming you're not playing a Newtborn.)

Change it to 'Hobgoblin Limbcrusher' who wield a big hammer and hits you so hard your arm goes painfully numb, and it makes a lot more sense. Game effect remains the same, SOD is much less affected.

Change the Picador to a Lassooer, and ditto. Same game rules. Same cool tactical effects. Less head-go-splodey. (The lasso has blades in it, so it still does cutting damage)

Keep everything consistent. Put the burden of the imagination on the designers to come up with Cool Game Effects that fit with the new "hit points DO NOT, EVER, represent actual physical wounds of any severity" paradigm, and not ask the player base to fanwank everything to justify it.

 

[VBMEW-01]

I love the picador, too, and I've already figured out an encounter where the PCs have to cross logs where these guys will come in handy. Heh heh.

Now that is a fine example of a multi-faceted encounter=LOVE IT!!!

maybe throw in some goblin-friendlies with log-striding speed (super balance, it worked for Jump which now has a speed) (DISCLAIMER-pseudojoke)

But yeah: Environment+Tactics+Monsters=Fantastic D&D


I've gotta see more! Who wants to join me in a raid on Andy Collin's place?!? (just kidding, Andy seems like a nice-enough guy, and I've no interest in commiting unlawful acts)

Damn I'm jittery today, no more Vault.

 

[Lizard]

Yeah, I'd have to believe that you couldn't do it every round though, couldn't have more than one creature harpooned...Duh falls in place. I also wonder whay there is no note on sustaining the state (you'd have to hold on to the damn thing, or its cord!). I'd probably institute the Sustain: Minor note if munchkin use became an issue.

Weapons are the finer point for me though, and the reason for this thread. I hated them in 3E, because it was mostly about picking damage, crit, or range. True, some had little bonuses to disarm or let you trip (yawn), but most were just a big yawn (net was cool though). I like the idea that different weapons have merit and tactics now, and harpooned seemed to be the best example so far.

This I agree with. I'd like to see all, or most, weapons have Cool Special Uses, ideally requring proficiency/training/talent to 'unlock'. Sort of like skills have untrained/trained/focused, I'd like weapons to have non-proficienct/proficient/focused/specialized, with different effect at each level.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I heard an early version of this monster was called the Goblin Picaboo, and it leapt out from bushes and screamed "PEAK-A-BOO!" and made characters giggle like small children.

But the designers wanted to introduce as many monsters as possible into the world that specifically violated the concept that HP doesn't have anything to do with actual physical wounds.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I heard an early version of this monster was called the Goblin Picaboo, and it leapt out from bushes and screamed "PEAK-A-BOO!" and made characters giggle like small children.

Well, call it a success... You just succeeded in making me giggle...

 

[Wystan]

Lizard -

Hit Points measure a lot of things, I would assume that if D&D 'EVER' modeled limb loss they would basically 'STATE' that magical healing was required to reverse the negative effect. Sort of like what they could also do for Stat drain, or even level loss. Oh wait, those are also unbelievable as they are unrealistic.

As to the Picador, I love the feel/flavor of this...

 

[VBMEW-01]

uh...

<Slides Soapboxes in place for the HP gripe-crowd>​

Not really the point of this thread folks, now there's plenty to be said on that subject but it only barely fits here. I believe that there are already proper places for this discussion (HERE and HERE and HERE come to mind).

I mean, we were just talking about new weapon abilities in here

EDIT-Not really hacking on anyone in particular, just sucks to hear the same conversation in every room of the house is all.

 

[Wystan]

<Slides Soapboxes in place for the HP gripe-crowd>​

Not really the point of this thread folks, now there's plenty to be saidon that subject but it only barely fits here. I believe that there are already proper places for this discussion (HERE and HERE and HERE come to mind).

I mean, we were just talking about new weapon abilities in here

I apologize, just tired of sitting around whilst others concoct arguments that hold no bearing. If my Suspension of Disbelief allows me to understand overnight healing, why must I be told so often that I am wrong?

As to the Picador's abilities, I would assume they are more in line with the Bugbear Strangler and a monster ability, not a weapon ability.

 

[Lizard]

That hit points don't cause lasting damage does not mean that they are not associated with wounds. That PCs regain all their hit points does not mean that they are unwounded.

I'm not sure why you want to continue this discussion on every thread, but I wish you would stop beginning all your posts with a straw man argument regarding the rules, other posters, or both.

Every thread? No, just the ones where it's relevant, where the conflict between design goals is slammed into my face, hard.

D&D combat has always relied heavily on the DM adding in all the flavor which the rules, by design, do not provide. "You take 6 hit points...he takes 4 hit points..." -- that's deathly dull and will kill a campaign. It's the DMs job to take the raw numbers of rolls and results and turn them into a dynamic fight scene. "You duck low under the monster's swing...it grazes your skull. You then leap up and jam the spear into its side, staining his armor with dark blood."

Descriptions need to be consistent with the rules. If you do 5 points of damage to a 200 hit point creature, it should not be described as "a vicious blow which nearly guts the thing". Likewise, if you know that the current rule paradigm is that all hit point damage represents effects which can be healed with a good night's rest and some bandages, you need to describe all combat effects in those terms. "Impaled and dragged around by a goblin" is hard to describe in such a way. Not impossible, I suppose...maybe it always goes through the fleshy part of your leg and you just soldier through the pain...but more difficult.

4e is supposed to make the DM's life *easier*. That means I should need to make less effort, not more, to create an exciting narrative from the results of the rules.

To reiterate: Picador is cool monster. (Rather, it's a cool mechanic and it's a shame the 4e paradigm blends monster+mechanic instead of making this an ability I can give to any monster). Flavor text doesn't match rules. Keep concept, change flavor text.