Goblin Picador

[hong]

For that matter I put up with it in videogames where the bad guys stuff can never be recovered, but they'll drop things they never used. It doesn't make sense in a crpg, but you put up with it because you have to. In D&D if you attack me with 30 orcs wearing plate mail, I am by god going to scavange 30 suits of orc plate.

... of course, only in a CRPG could you carry 30 suits of orc plate.

I solve this problem by banning gold.

Don't tell me it's gamist and I don't understand it. I understand it. I've seen it before, and I'm sick of it. There is a minimum about of simulation that I must see in an RPG or it's not an RPG anymore, and I won't play it.

Oh well.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Part 2 is that it's retconning the setting to bone the players for no obvious reason. What harm would it do to let them wear the smelly hand-me down of orcs?

None, as long as the players understand the following:
1. Penalty to AC. The armor doesn't fit and has gaps.
2. Penalty to Att. The armor doesn't fit, and restricts natural movement.
3. Penalty to Social Encounters. You stink like an Orc.

Or to sell them for 1/2 the price of a normal suit of plate?

Who says you'd get that much? It's not worth much to anyone not an orc except for its weight in iron. Armor you can't wear or use sells for 0 gp unless you've found a collector of smelly orc armor (these people exist - just check out E*Bay).

And because I know that everyone in this thread is just dying to know, I'll let you in on how I solve this in my campaigns: Inferior materials. Goblins and orc usually only have hide armors and wooden or bronze weapons. Hobgoblins have iron (as opposed to steel) weapons and armor. The bronze stuff suffers a -2 penalty to Dmg/AC, while the Iron stuff is 1.5x as heavy as steel. This allows PCs to use the weapons in a pinch (like if they escape from an Orc prison), but they usually ditch them as soon as good human/elven/dwarven steel is available. It also means that these armor and weapons usually only sell for 1-5% list price for equivalent steel alternatives in any human/elven/dwarven settlement that has access to (superior) steel.

Besides, saying "No" is no fun and runs counter to every good improvosational tactic known to man. Saying "Yes!" empowers the players, lets them experiment more (and find rewards when they do!), and makes me think more as a DM, while getting on with it.

I fully agree! But saying "Yes!" to everything without imposing reasonable conditions isn't the answer either. The best way forward (IMO) is "Conditionally, Yes!"

 

[BryonD]

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Youthinks wrong. Very very wrong.

Funny how the clinging need to falsely compare to reality keeps being the refuge of these arguments.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Also aren't we talking about something that has already been slightly addressed by the AICM review? I know people will say it was biased, and wasn't a proper review, etc, etc.

But he does state that 4E really helps with letting the DM go, YES! So I imagine there will be some just generic-stamp on rules in the DMG/PHB which can work for a variety of things.

As for the Goblin I absolutely adore the guy, I can't wait till we have the Barbarian, so I can do the following.

"Four Goblin Picador surround the Barbarian they each throw and embed their barbs in his flesh. Then hold tight, the Barbarian begins to Rage, thrashing about, but being unable to move (he is right in the middle of the group so it is 5 Squares all the way around). Using his extra-strength from Rage, he grabs the rope and swings the Goblins into the air, making himself a 4-pronged Goblin flail"

 

[The Little Raven]

Youthinks wrong. Very very wrong.

Funny how the clinging need to falsely compare to reality keeps being the refuge of these arguments.

When someone says it's more believable to recover from grave injuries in 10 days than 6 hours, and realistically those injuries would take a person a year or so to recover from with modern medical science, their sense of "realism" and "believability" is so skewed as to not merit those descriptive terms.

And that doesn't even touch on the fact that hit points have never been realistic. Ever.

 

[Protagonist]

When someone says it's more believable to recover from grave injuries in 10 days than 6 hours, and realistically those injuries would take a person a year or so to recover from with modern medical science, their sense of "realism" and "believability" is so skewed as to not merit those descriptive terms.

And that doesn't even touch on the fact that hit points have never been realistic. Ever.

what he said!

 

[ruleslawyer]

The great thing is, it's a magic harpoon, so that even after you've been impaled and dragged around, the wound closes if you have a good nap. (Or get yelled at by the Warlord)

(If you want hit points to be explicitly non-wounding, then, don't include game effects which are explicitly wounding...)

What, you mean like rules for trolls regrowing limbs or the regenerate spell? We've had this problem for a long, long time.

If this is so offensive, stick a harpooning victim with an injury penalty that lasts a few days or requires magical healing. Nice and easy.

 

[IanB]

As a child, my hand got electrocuted by a faulty wall socket.

OFF TOPIC PET PEEVE NITPICK WARNING

If you are still alive, you didn't get electrocuted. You got shocked.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled on-topic argument.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Hell, you can even change the kind of harpoon if you want, you can switch from the classic pronged harpoon too a barbed one, and have it that the harpoon has hooked onto the PCs flesh with the barbs.

Barbs would be quite painful and hard to take out, which constitutes the control the Goblin has, cause come on. No matter how strong you are, unless you have gone total berserk (like my Barbarian idea) when your flesh is being tugged on by barbs you will follow that tug to lessen the pain.

Also while barbs are quite dangerous, they really aren't all that life-threatening, you just have some gouges that can be patched up pretty well.

Also and finally, barbs can hook onto clothing and armour as well, so if you wished to, (say it hit but barely) it can simply be hooked on the clothing.

 

[baberg]

I know I'm the newbie on the site, having just joined it after Gary Gygax's passing and my consequential resurgence in RPG gaming, but it sure seems like there are a lot of people on the 4E boards who absolutely hate 4E and take any opportunity they can to moan about their particular gripe - the most recent ones being HP and diagonal movement.

We get it, alright? You don't like 4E and won't play it. Thanks. But there are some of us who like what 4E could represent to our gaming group and the D&D game as a whole, so why don't you let us discuss these things in peace?

I love the Picador's special abilities and will absolutely love DMing a few of these guys in a large skirmish, keeping the ranged PCs in range of our spellcaster while the melee try to kill the Picadors before they can do too much damage. That sounds like a fun and memorable encounter to me. If it doesn't sound like fun for you because it breaks your SOD, well, too bad, I guess you don't be playing any games with me. But let those of us who would like to play it talk amongst ourselves, ok?