Goblins? Boring? I shouldn't think so.

[Mystery Man]

Trollords' "Erde" has a different kind of goblin if memory serves.

Eldritch goblin I think it was.

Sorry to dwell on that but it's nagging the brain.

 

[Sejs]

I actually like the fact that goblins go down with one hit; it feels right. What I don't like is that they're not sneaky, tricksy, and false. The solution's obvious: make them Rogues, not Warriors.

That's what I did, too. Worked like a charm. My low level PCs greatly fear goblin ambushes.

4 ranks in Hide and Move Silently, a +4 racial bonus to MS, a +4 size bonus to Hide, and their dex mod? Then give them a ranged weapon and have 'em travel in groups.

Lets think about this. Now, Goblins might be stupid

Only, they're not. Int 10, baby - goblinkind is just as smart as humanity.

 

[Berandor]

No, but he has done Hobgoblins -- on velociraptors, armed with nagamaki (if I remember the term correctly: katana with three-foot handles).

Yeah, his hobgoblins and orcs are about the toughest bastards you can unleash on your players. They'll be craving a tarrasque afterwards

Now, let's see if I can dig up those threads...

ETA:
SHARK ORC
SHARK OGRE SHARK HOBGOBLIN SHARK DREGENAR (a custom race)

 

[MarauderX]

My advice is don't change the stats, just change how they act. Add tons of them, a hoard should do nicely, and treat them all as rogues with decent tumble and sneak attack damage. They're stupid, but they still know basic tactics of swarming an opponent, starting with the weakest for a change. Will they fail the DC=15 tumble checks? Count on it, but how many PCs that face them have enough AoOs via Combat Reflexes to take four of the tumblers down in the same round?

Don't show all your cards to the players - only show them 1/2 of the goblin patrol, and have the other half charge into battle from a hidden flanking position.

Poisons can be utilized to do ability damage of nearly any kind, but they should all have the same type to weaken those stats first. Goblins might also have pets, and a druidic-type goblin might have a menagerie. Snakes, rats, bats, wolves, worgs, badgers, wolverines, lizards, crocodiles, whatever. You could change their little encounter into a full sprint for their lives to the nearest village as a whole clan of goblins pursues them through the wild with worgs to track them.

Next up, lead the brave PCs into invading the goblin lair, and the place has got to have traps galore, from alarms to crossbow traps to oil slicked puddles waiting to be lit up with a tindertwig. Goblins are small, so any smart leader would likely try to use cramped quarters against medium sized foes. Dropped bags of flour can cover an escape or douse the party rogue to affect hide checks. Pits with spikes barely under the surface of disease-laden mucky water can have deleterious long term problems for the PCs to fix later. Lead them on using a lone goblin decoy so the PCs sprint down trapped corridors before being ambushed. For your RBDM, give the BBEGoblin a vampire or lich template for fun, and watch the PCs struggle through 50 of them just to run away at the end.

 

[Henry]

In our Eberron Campaign, my players have learned to loathe three words:

Goblin Death Squad.

Nothing like having the Shaarat Kesh, Darguun's elite assassin forces, taking a contract out on you at an unknown employer's request.

 

[mmadsen]

Now, let's see if I can dig up those threads...

ETA:
SHARK Orc
SHARK Ogre
SHARK Hobgoblin
SHARK Dregenar (a custom race)

You can find most of SHARK's threads around here:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/forum...rt=postusername&order=desc&pp=30&daysprune=-1
(But they'll move around as people create more threads.)

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I actually like the fact that goblins go down with one hit; it feels right. What I don't like is that they're not sneaky, tricksy, and false. The solution's obvious: make them Rogues, not Warriors.

They don't need fey magic to spoil food and lame horses; they sneak in at night to drop filth in your rations and to hamstring your steeds.

If you ever try to fight them, they run away. Then they ambush you. Again and again.

This seems like the way to go to me. I've given goblins rogue levels before and by using proper flanking tactics they were quite effective against the PCs.

 

[mmadsen]

Next up, lead the brave PCs into invading the goblin lair, and the place has got to have traps galore, from alarms to crossbow traps to oil slicked puddles waiting to be lit up with a tindertwig. Goblins are small, so any smart leader would likely try to use cramped quarters against medium sized foes. Dropped bags of flour can cover an escape or douse the party rogue to affect hide checks. Pits with spikes barely under the surface of disease-laden mucky water can have deleterious long term problems for the PCs to fix later. Lead them on using a lone goblin decoy so the PCs sprint down trapped corridors before being ambushed. For your RBDM, give the BBEGoblin a vampire or lich template for fun, and watch the PCs struggle through 50 of them just to run away at the end.

You may enjoy How would you defend your subterranean kingdom?, which explores this proposition:

Let's say you're a Goblin King ruling your Undermountain Kingdom. How would you defend it?​

 

[NewJeffCT]

My advice is don't change the stats, just change how they act. Add tons of them, a hoard should do nicely, and treat them all as rogues with decent tumble and sneak attack damage. They're stupid, but they still know basic tactics of swarming an opponent, starting with the weakest for a change. Will they fail the DC=15 tumble checks? Count on it, but how many PCs that face them have enough AoOs via Combat Reflexes to take four of the tumblers down in the same round?

Don't show all your cards to the players - only show them 1/2 of the goblin patrol, and have the other half charge into battle from a hidden flanking position.

Poisons can be utilized to do ability damage of nearly any kind, but they should all have the same type to weaken those stats first. Goblins might also have pets, and a druidic-type goblin might have a menagerie. Snakes, rats, bats, wolves, worgs, badgers, wolverines, lizards, crocodiles, whatever. You could change their little encounter into a full sprint for their lives to the nearest village as a whole clan of goblins pursues them through the wild with worgs to track them.

Next up, lead the brave PCs into invading the goblin lair, and the place has got to have traps galore, from alarms to crossbow traps to oil slicked puddles waiting to be lit up with a tindertwig. Goblins are small, so any smart leader would likely try to use cramped quarters against medium sized foes. Dropped bags of flour can cover an escape or douse the party rogue to affect hide checks. Pits with spikes barely under the surface of disease-laden mucky water can have deleterious long term problems for the PCs to fix later. Lead them on using a lone goblin decoy so the PCs sprint down trapped corridors before being ambushed. For your RBDM, give the BBEGoblin a vampire or lich template for fun, and watch the PCs struggle through 50 of them just to run away at the end.

Great post. This is exactly what I would do - run goblins as is, but give them goblins appropriate strategy.

Why is a goblin lair going to be a place that has convenient 10 foot cathedral ceilings? Goblins are more likely to have a place with 5 foot high ceilings, which would make human and elf PCs & NPCs likely to have to crouch & at least lose their Dex bonus, if not have more penalties.

And, does the MM list goblins as being -2 or -4 to INT? I thought they had a zero modifier to their INT, at least in 3.0? Was that changed for 3.5?

Definitely go with numbers as well. Goblins are not only hunted by humans, elves & dwarves, they also have to worry about orcs, hobgoblins & gnolls and the like. Goblins will stick together out of necessity - even if they have a 6 INT, they should realize that.

You could also toughen it up a bit by giving the big boss goblin several levels of Rogue and/or Fighter, then have a few smaller bosses with levels and maybe a shaman or sorcerer type as well. Or, maybe the goblins have a deal with a local ogre to lend them some muscle in exchange for gold and/or food?

 

[mmadsen]

From How would you defend your subterranean kingdom?:

If you're a Goblin, and you're expecting attacks from Men, it only makes sense to play to your strengths and their weaknesses. Goblins are short; Men are tall. All ceilings should be four or five feet high; doors should be even shorter.

Goblins can see in the dark; Men can't. Obviously there should be no lanterns or torches and no windows or skylights to bring in light. Any sign of light is a sign of invasion. Traps and ambushes can rely on the fact that Men can only see so far in torch light.

Goblins show discretion; Men are fools who expect a square fight. Why stand and fight when you can throw down javelins from protected ledges? Why not drop terrible things from (and thrust short spears through) "murder holes"? Thick walls are cheap when you live in a mountain. The entire kingdom can work as a series of castle gate houses.

With a straight assault almost impossible -- no walls to topple or climb over, and deathtrap gatehouses at every approach -- you then have to worry about other siege techniques. Can they dig around your existing defended tunnels? It should take a long, long time, but if you can't sally forth to stop them, they'll go for it. So the wolfriders need a secret exit for counter attacks.

Can they flood you out or smoke you out? If you're going to live underground, take note of how those Men handle gophers and other underground enemies.​