OGL Going Nuclear:1D&D

Zardnaar

Legend
Gonna phrase this as politely as I can. Specifically I'm advocating burning 1D&D down to the ground and all the D&D branding. This includes online play, the movie, video games, new edition everything. If you play MtG you can make your own decisions.

Essentially boycott everything WotC/D&D related. If you're feeling motivated throw in Hasbro and MtG related.

And do it across all forms of social media, reddit, YouTube etc.

For me last time around it was Paizo this time around it's Kobold Press and everyone else.

Just remember monetization means nothing good.

Crush the 1.1, see them crumble before you, and to hear the lamentations of their CEO.
 
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Gonna phrase this as politely as I can. Specifically I'm advocating burning 1D&D down to the ground and all the D&D branding. Thus includes online play, the movie, new edition everything. If you play MtG you can make your own decisions.

Essentially boycott everything WotC/D&D related. If you're feeling motivated throw in Hasbro and MtG related.

And do it across all forms of social media, reddit, YouTube etc.

For me last time around it was Paizo this time around it's Kobold Press and everyone else.

Just remember monetization means nothing good.

Crush the 1.1, see them crumble before you, and to hear the lamentations of their CEO.
And for those of us who don't give two figs about the OGL? Which you might find to be a surprising amount?
 




aco175

Legend
Tldr: WotC bad Screw em.
Nothing against you, but this seems appropriate at this point. I have a healthy distrust of big government and large corporations, but you need to give more than this.

1673131983706.png
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Nothing against you, but this seems appropriate at this point. I have a healthy distrust of big government and large corporations, but you need to give more than this.

View attachment 271613

Well there's a lot going on. Basically they seemingly want to nuke the OGL and force the larger OGL companies into paying royalties.

Said royalties are high enough to potentially kill off Kickstarter.
 

Steel_Wind

Legend
Maybe you can summarize the several threads going on about all the problems wit the new OLG and whatnot. I seemed to have lost interest trying to keep up with the whole "He said, she said."
"They" haven't "said" anything. Yet. Still, the leaks of internal documents from within WotC (at least one of their employees was not happy with what he/she/they were reading and leaked it to the media) suggests there is some unpleasant maneuvering ahead with the OGL 1.1.

Draft document(s) created by lawyers for discussion with management is not the same thing as announcing a decided course of action. We will see what WotC will announce, if anything, concerning the OGL soon enough.
 

AdmundfortGeographer

Getting lost in fantasy maps
If the version we have seen in leaked excerpts is the actual final OGL 1.1 to be publicly released next week, it seems to me remarkable that WotC incinerating fan good will over on the MtG line didn’t dissuade them from doing the same with D&D’s fan base.

But I have been itching for an excuse to start my group using Worlds Without Number and get going on a Dark Sun conversion.
 

Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
"They" haven't "said" anything. Yet. Still, the leaks of internal documents from within WotC (at least one of their employees was not happy with what he/she/they were reading and leaked it to the media) suggests there is some unpleasant maneuvering ahead with the OGL 1.1.

Draft document(s) created by lawyers for discussion with management is not the same thing as announcing a decided course of action. We will see what WotC will announce, if anything, concerning the OGL soon enough.
From this post, I have strong confidence that what we've seen is not an internal draft.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
If the version we have seen in leaked excerpts is the actual final OGL 1.1 to be publicly released next week, it seems to me remarkable that WotC incinerating fan good will over on the MtG line didn’t dissuade them from doing the same with D&D’s fan base.

But I have been itching for an excuse to start my group using Worlds Without Number and get going on a Dark Sun conversion.

Often wondered if non D&D Darksun would work specifically D6.
 


Tazawa

Adventurer
And for those of us who don't give two figs about the OGL? Which you might find to be a surprising amount?

You should care. The OGL provides a large number of benefits to consumers even if they do not generate content.

1. It increases the amount of gaming material available to you. Do you like to play D&D but have a specific interest that WotC’s offerings don’t address? There’s likely an OGL product that covers it.
2. Do you like new ideas in your gaming? The OGL offers a very easy entry point for new talent.
3. Most importantly, it provides competition that keeps prices lower and prevents WotC from creating a walled garden. Do you like to have a choice as to what VTT you can use?

The OGL has been enormously beneficial to everyday gamers, even if it is not immediately obvious. And it has also been enormously beneficial to WotC—without it, they would not be in their dominant position in the marketplace.

Getting rid of the OGL will harm both gamers and WotC.
 

Clint_L

Hero
The OGL has been enormously beneficial to everyday gamers, even if it is not immediately obvious. And it has also been enormously beneficial to WotC—without it, they would not be in their dominant position in the marketplace.

I agree with the first statement.

I do not necessarily agree with the second. And I know it is almost taken as a given on this forum that the OGL has been vastly beneficial to WotC, but that is very, very hard to prove. D&D has been a dominant player in the RPG market since it created the RPG market in the 70s, and it has a huge reservoir of cultural awareness that no other RPG can even approach. The OGL did not create that.

The second statement may be true, but on the other hand, it might be the case that the OGL has not produced a ton of money for WotC. In fact, when I looked at my own D&D-related spending for the past year, less than 3% of it went to WotC. Hasbro are not irrational. They are looking at a lot more numbers than we are and making their decisions accordingly. They might turn out to be wrong, but that is not a forgone conclusion.

Edit: with regards to the OP, I think it is easy for folks who are not really fans of D&D 5e to call for boycotts. I'm not that fussed about what I've learned, thus far. For one thing, I don't really know anything yet. For another, I don't think it's terrible for Hasbro to ask for royalties on people making a lot of money off their IP. That's pretty normal behaviour, and I don't boycott all the other media companies who ask for royalties to use their IP (basically, all of them). It comes down to how it is implemented and whether I think Hasbro/WotC is being egregious. I have a lot of goodwill towards them.
 
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You should care. The OGL provides a large number of benefits to consumers even if they do not generate content.

1. It increases the amount of gaming material available to you. Do you like to play D&D but have a specific interest that WotC’s offerings don’t address? There’s likely an OGL product that covers it.
2. Do you like new ideas in your gaming? The OGL offers a very easy entry point for new talent.
3. Most importantly, it provides competition that keeps prices lower and prevents WotC from creating a walled garden. Do you like to have a choice as to what VTT you can use?

The OGL has been enormously beneficial to everyday gamers, even if it is not immediately obvious. And it has also been enormously beneficial to WotC—without it, they would not be in their dominant position in the marketplace.

Getting rid of the OGL will harm both gamers and WotC.

Before going nuclear, lets see what happens...
... maybe they come to senses.

And then: I have not found OGL Material that I personally liked so much that I wanted to use it immediately
Even the things that were praised like tome of beasts...
I also want to see the movie and I want it to be a success. Wouls bw a shame if it will be the last one if it as good as it looks.
So. Hopefully wotc might even bw pressured by paramount to not do something stupid.
It is not the first time a movie tanked bwcause of a boycot.
 

I'll still see the movie (if the word is that it lives up to the trailer), because it looks enjoyable and I don't think the angry D&D fans willing to boycott over OGL-related inside baseball are enough to send a meaningful message in regard to a major motion picture. If the movie is dependent of active D&D players it's already a failure.

But I was already pretty unhappy with the direction (and lack thereof) of OneD&D, and while I'm not super invested in the OGL controversy it has probably soured me enough to not bother with the eventual grudging purchase I would have made of the OneD&D core books (assuming they have actual books and not some sort of subscription plan).
 

Tazawa

Adventurer
I agree with the first statement.

I do not necessarily agree with the second. And I know it is almost taken as a given on this forum that the OGL has been vastly beneficial to WotC, but that is very, very hard to prove. D&D has been a dominant player in the RPG market since it created the RPG market in the 70s, and it has a huge reservoir of cultural awareness that no other RPG can even approach. The OGL did not create that.

The second statement may be true, but on the other hand, it might be the case that the OGL has not produced a ton of money for WotC. In fact, when I looked at my own D&D-related spending for the past year, less than 3% of it went to WotC. Hasbro are not irrational. They are looking at a lot more numbers than we are and making their decisions accordingly. They might turn out to be wrong, but that is not a forgone conclusion.

Edit: with regards to the OP, I think it is easy for folks who are not really fans of D&D 5e to call for boycotts. I'm not that fussed about what I've learned, thus far. For one thing, I don't really know anything yet. For another, I don't think it's terrible for Hasbro to ask for royalties on people making a lot of money off their IP. That's pretty normal behaviour, and I don't boycott all the other media companies who ask for royalties to use their IP (basically, all of them). It comes down to how it is implemented and whether I think Hasbro/WotC is being egregious. I have a lot of goodwill towards them.

I agree that the second statement is hard to prove. The biggest impact of the OGL has been through network effects, which are very hard to directly measure through revenue. But I also work in marketing and know how amazingly powerful being regarded as the default rule system is and how much goodwill can impact the bottom line.

With regards to WotC being paid for their IP, they definitely are. If you want to publish on DMs Guild, you pay 25% royalties to reference their game world, characters, etc. WotC in turn, pays royalties when the they use other people’s IP in their books (Critical Role, Stranger Things, etc.)

The IP in the game rules, of course, is slightly different. Everyone always says that game mechanics can’t be copyrighted, and it is true. But RPG rules are in kind of a gray area where it is unsure where the pure game mechanics and the copyrightable content overlap. The OGL was a truce—people wouldn’t take each other to court over game mechanics and could concentrate on developing the really valuable aspects of IP (characters, stories, etc.).

All of that will end if WotC is successful revoking the OGL. It will become too expensive for third parties to Kickstart D&D content. No new ‘Critical Roles’ will choose D&D. No innovative new writers will risk losing control of their IP and will not choose to support D&D.
 

The Myopic Sniper

Adventurer
If the OGL1.1 goes the way the worst-case scenarios have outlined the edition and Pathfinder wars during the 4e era are going to look like a walk in the park.

Hasbro should look at what Star Wars fandom ended up doing to Star Wars 9 and the Solo movie box office before proceeding. Everytime D&D is brought up in any context on any website, there will be a bunch of folks diving in to hate on it. I can promise this is what is next if most of what has been highlighted so far goes through.
 

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