Golem and Dispel magic

[Hypersmurf]

Does dispel magic work on creatures?

What does it do to an otherwise unbespelled zombie, dragon or outsider?

A golem is a creature... but as 3d6 has shown, it is also a magic item.

Likewise, an intelligent +2 longsword is a magic item, but it is also a creature: "Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs."

A zombie, dragon, or outsider is a creature, but it is not a magic item.

If the object that you target is a magic item, you make a dispel check against the item’s caster level. If you succeed, all the item’s magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds, after which the item recovers on its own. A suppressed item becomes nonmagical for the duration of the effect. An interdimensional interface (such as a bag of holding) is temporarily closed. A magic item’s physical properties are unchanged: A suppressed magic sword is still a sword (a masterwork sword, in fact). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.

The intelligent +2 longsword is certainly a magic item. (The section on intelligent items uses the phrase repeatedly.) It has a caster level. Thus, if you cast a targeted dispel magic on the magic item and beat its caster level, its magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds... despite the fact that it's also considered a creature.

However...

The description of Antimagic Field states: "The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures)."

A targeted dispel magic only suppresses magical properties. The fact that a golem retains its animation in an antimagic field suggests that this might not, in fact, be considered a magical property, and thus would not be suppressed. A case could be made, however, that for 1d4 rounds the golem could not activate [Su] abilities, since these are magical properties of the magic item (the golem)... just as they could not use those [Su] abilities in an AMF.

-Hyp.

 

[ElectricDragon]

I believe that if you let Dispel Magic work on golems, you should also let it work on undead created by spell. And not just skeletons and zombies, you need to know if a certain undead was created by spell (Create Greater Undead) or by other means to know if it can be affected.

Personally, I don't track every zombie and ghoul IMC to determine whether Dispel Magic would affect it and shut it down for 1d4 rounds. Golems are supposed to be scary; but if all it takes is a simple 3rd level spell available to most spell-casting classes and not just those special spells listed in its description; why would anyone spend thousands of xp to make one in the first place?

"Oh, its an iron golem. Quick, dispel it while we grab the best loot! Then ready another dispel if we're not through when it starts moving again. Then we go outside and rememorize and do it again until we get all the treasure."

I don't think Mordy's Disjunction would even work on them. They are not items or objects; they are creatures. Dispel Magic? I treat the golem as if it were created by a spell with a duration of Instantaneous.

Ciao
Dave

 

[Hypersmurf]

They are not items or objects; they are creatures.

They are creatures, and they are items.

"The characteristics of a golem that come from its nature as a magic item (caster level, prerequisite feats and spells, market price, cost to create) are given in summary form at the end of each golem’s description."

How can a golem have a 'nature as a magic item' if it is not a magic item?

Undead are creatures animated by an instantaneous spell. They are not magic items.

Golems are creatures created using the rules for magic items. They are magic items.

The two are not comparable in that respect.

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

Here's a relevant entry from the 3.5 FAQ:

In a game I run, one of my players tried to use
Mordenkainen’s disjunction on a golem. The spell failed to
get through the antimagic field provided by the golem’s
creator, so I didn’t have to make a ruling this time. My
question is, would it have worked? Is a golem more of a
creature, having been listed in the Monster Manual, or a
magic item, as it’s created just like one? On that subject, a
golem is immune to magical effects, would this include
Mordenkainen’s disjunction? That is, is a golem a magical
effect for purposes of resolving a Mordenkainen’s
disjunction spell?

You can’t disjoin a golem because a golem is a creature,
not a magic item or magical effect.

Anything that has both a Charisma score and a Wisdom
score is a creature, not an object. Mordenkainen’s disjunction
would destroy any magical effect a golem was using, such as a
slow effect from a stone golem.

 

[Jdvn1]

Uh oh, someone used the FAQ...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Here's a relevant entry from the 3.5 FAQ:

Now, see, I agree with him when he says "Anything that has both a Charisma score and a Wisdom score is a creature, not an object."

But I disagree with him when he says "a golem is a creature, not a magic item". It's both, per the description in the Monster Manual.

The fact that it isn't an object is irrelevant. MDJ isn't limited to objects; it's limited to magic items, of which a golem is one.

-Hyp.

 

[JimAde]

Aren't golems generally immune to magic anyway (including Dispel Magic which is, after all, a spell)?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Aren't golems generally immune to magic anyway (including Dispel Magic which is, after all, a spell)?

They're immune to magic that allows SR. Dispel Magic doesn't.

Feel free to Acid Arrow or Orb of Flame your golem - it works just fine.

-Hyp.

 

[Shin Okada]

OK, A Golem may be an magic item. But as it is cleally not an object, dispelling does not work.

From SRD,

If the object that you target is a magic item, you make a dispel check against the item' s caster level. If you succeed, all the item' s magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds, after which the item recovers on its own. A suppressed item becomes nonmagical for the duration of the effect. An interdimensional interface (such as a bag of holding) is temporarily closed. A magic item' s physical properties are unchanged: A suppressed magic sword is still a sword (a masterwork sword, in fact). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.
You automatically succeed on your dispel check against any spell that you cast yourself.

So this function of Dispel Magic spell works when "If the object that you target is a magic item". Does not work when "If the creature that you target is a magic item".

 

[DungeonMaster]

Aren't golems generally immune to magic anyway (including Dispel Magic which is, after all, a spell)?

Only in 3rd edition.