Golem Magic Immunity

[Artoomis]

By strict reading of the rules, yes.

However, D&D isn't that simple. Elves have immunity to sleep effects, but may voluntarily lower this immunity and be hit by a sleep spell. Rakshasas can not walk through a wall of force because wall of force does not allow for SR but are still immune to spells. Immunity in D&D rarely means immutable immunity.

We have already tread this ground though, and there doesn't seem to be much need to go over it again.

I am only noting that Magic Immunity is different from other Spell Immunity/Spell Resistance things. How different? Each DM must decide - and I quoted the two most important phrases to help decide that very thing.

Rakshasa Spell Immunity says right in the description that it is like Spell Resistance, so it's not a fair comparison.

Golem's are not free-willed, and so to read Magic Immunity to have a non-lowerable immunity makes perfect sense - they can't "choose" to do anything.

However, whether or not they can ignore things like a Wall of Force is an open question, like I stated above.

 

[Angcuru]

Doesn't anyone else think that the COMPLETE IMMUNITY to MAGIC that Golems have is a bit....overpowered? I think it's a bit silly that if you were to lock an Iron Golem in a 50x50 room along with a 100th lvl Wizard(who is unarmed and can cast no conjuration spells), the Golem Beats the snot out of the Wizard at the end of the day. I think this is a BIT too powerful of an advantage for a Golem to have.

 

[LokiDR]

Doesn't anyone else think that the COMPLETE IMMUNITY to MAGIC that Golems have is a bit....overpowered? I think it's a bit silly that if you were to lock an Iron Golem in a 50x50 room along with a 100th lvl Wizard(who is unarmed and can cast no conjuration spells), the Golem Beats the snot out of the Wizard at the end of the day. I think this is a BIT too powerful of an advantage for a Golem to have.

And a high penalty. The golem can't be repaired by spells, unless those spells are changed. The golem can't be a bodyguard to the wizard with teleport, because it can not be teleported. The golem can not be buffed up by the wizard for a tough combat. This limits the usablity of golems a lot.

I agree with the sentiment about 100th level wizard though. Think about how you want golem to exsist in your game and then make your decison.

 

[Magic Rub]

Doesn't anyone else think that the COMPLETE IMMUNITY to MAGIC that Golems have is a bit....overpowered? I think it's a bit silly that if you were to lock an Iron Golem in a 50x50 room along with a 100th lvl Wizard(who is unarmed and can cast no conjuration spells), the Golem Beats the snot out of the Wizard at the end of the day. I think this is a BIT too powerful of an advantage for a Golem to have.

IMO a 100th lvl Wizard...
(Aprox. Attack bonuses +90/+85)
(Aprox. Saves +86,+86,+92)
With Spells like (& none of them used on the golem); Shape change, Polymorph anyobject (not on the golem), Polymorph self, Iron body, Wish, Limited wish, Move earth.

...would TROUNCE a CR 13 Iron golem.

 

[Magic Rub]

Doesn't anyone else think that the COMPLETE IMMUNITY to MAGIC that Golems have is a bit....overpowered? I think it's a bit silly that if you were to lock an Iron Golem in a 50x50 room along with a 100th lvl Wizard(who is unarmed and can cast no conjuration spells), the Golem Beats the snot out of the Wizard at the end of the day. I think this is a BIT too powerful of an advantage for a Golem to have.

Ps.
A 100th level unarmed anything (without the right feats, or being a monk) would have a hard time killing a CR 13 golem (DR 50/+2, immune to subdual damage).








[edit]
Pps. a 15th level caster with Iron body as his only spell could kill a CR 13 Iron golem.
[/edit]

 

[LokiDR]

Ps.
A 100th level unarmed anything (without the right feats, or being a monk) would have a hard time killing a CR 13 golem (DR 50/+2, immune to subdual damage).

Exactly why magic immunit that prevents damage from things such as Rock to Mud is very strong.

 

[Magic Rub]

Exactly why magic immunit that prevents damage from things such as Rock to Mud is very strong.

Strong but not insane or overpowered (Like I said a 15th lvl Wizard could kill a CR13 Iron golem with little problem)









To further clear up my above example;

A 100th level unarmed -any PHB Class- (without the right feats, or being a monk) would have a hard time killing a (insert CR ?? & any creature type here) with the special abilities DR 50/+2 & immune to subdual damage.

The fact that the creature was a golem had nothing to do with my example.

 

[Kraedin]

And a high penalty. The golem can't be repaired by spells, unless those spells are changed. The golem can't be a bodyguard to the wizard with teleport, because it can not be teleported. The golem can not be buffed up by the wizard for a tough combat. This limits the usablity of golems a lot.

Player's Handbook, page 150:

A creature can voluntarily forego a saving thorw and willingly accept a spell's result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic (for example, an elf's resistance to sleep effects) can suppress this if he or she wants to.

 

[Artoomis]

And a high penalty. The golem can't be repaired by spells, unless those spells are changed. The golem can't be a bodyguard to the wizard with teleport, because it can not be teleported. The golem can not be buffed up by the wizard for a tough combat. This limits the usablity of golems a lot.

Player's Handbook, page 150:

A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell's result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic (for example, an elf's resistance to sleep effects) can suppress this if he or she wants to.Player's Handbook

, page 150:

That may be true normally, but Golems are mindless contructs incapable of making their own decisions. Thus the inability to "lower" their magic immunity to voluntarily accept spells makes perfect sense.

On the other hand, it would not be unreasonable to rule that a golem could be commanded by its master to accept a spell that would normally have no effect. I wouldn't do that, but I could see it as a not too unreasonable position.

Personally, I think golems are much more interesting when played with a really strict magic immunity that is total and uncompromising.

 

[LokiDR]

To further clear up my above example;

A 100th level unarmed -any PHB Class- (without the right feats, or being a monk) would have a hard time killing a (insert CR ?? & any creature type here) with the special abilities DR 50/+2 & immune to subdual damage.

The fact that the creature was a golem had nothing to do with my example.

Many sorcerers and wizards, as well as many druids would disagree. Heck, even many clerics. But without magic being able to directly effect the creature, these classes loose a lot.