Gonna play a scout. I can hear the other players whining already...

[Arcane Runes Press]

In exchange for a better hit die, AC bonus, good Fort save, Intiative bonus, and fighter bonus feats?

It sounds like more splatbook power-creep, to me.

So?

The Scout still can't "out rogue" the Rogue class. d8 hit dice don't pick locks, a bonus to AC doesn't intimidate a giant, a good Fort save won't help you disguise yourself as a cultist, and bonus fighter feats don't help you shoot lightning bolts out of a wand.

A rogue in a party with a scout will have plenty of chances to shine, presuming the player takes advantage of the full spectrum of rogue skills.


If there's any class that gets stepped on by the Scout, it's the Ranger.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

just because you can find traps doesn't mean you have the potential to be good at it.....

Or to do anything *about* the traps you do find, other than set them off.

Given that it's set up to be Good At Noticing Stuff, Search and Trapfinding makes sense. Being able to disable devices, though, does not necessarily fit.

Brad

 

[Crothian]

Or to do anything *about* the traps you do find, other than set them off.

go around them? go the other way?

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

The scout does not get Use Magic Device.

The rogue does.

The rogue out-scouts the scout, dammit!

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

go around them? go the other way?

Neither is always an option.

"Well, guys, there's this trap into the last room of the dungeon. I guess that's where all the treasure is. Oh, well, we had fun, let's go home!"

Brad

 

[Crothian]

Neither is always an option.

"Well, guys, there's this trap into the last room of the dungeon. I guess that's where all the treasure is. Oh, well, we had fun, let's go home!"

Brad

They are still options, maybe not the options the PCs want to go with, but options none the less. About this time in the adventure is when the players all look around and go "I guess a rogue would have been better"

 

[warlord]

Just wondering what the Scout's HD is I think its d8 am I wrong?

 

[FireLance]

Neither is always an option.

"Well, guys, there's this trap into the last room of the dungeon. I guess that's where all the treasure is. Oh, well, we had fun, let's go home!"

"Well, guys, there's this trap into the last room of the dungeon. I guess that's where all the treasure is. Looks like a pit trap. With my speed bonus and my Jump ranks, I ought to be able to clear it easily."

"Well, guys, there's this trap into the last room of the dungeon. I guess that's where all the treasure is. It looks like a scything blade trap. With my skirmish ability and 5 ranks of Tumble, I should have a +8 bonus to AC if I run by it and try to avoid it. Wish me luck!"

"Well, guys, there's this trap into the last room of the dungeon. I guess that's where all the treasure is. It looks like the trapmakers installed a hidden switch bypass element. If I press this button, we should all be safe."

"Well, guys, there's this trap into the last room of the dungeon. I guess that's where all the treasure is. It looks like an acid blast explosive runes. I might be able to avoid all the damage with my Evasion ability, but maybe the cleric should cast resist energy on me first, just in case."

"Well, guys, there's this trap into the last room of the dungeon. I guess that's where all the treasure is. It's pressure plate activated, so don't step beyond the chalk line I've drawn on the floor. The corridor wall looks pretty sturdy, though, so why don't you guys stay on the alert for trouble while I make some handholds and footholds with these pitons."

 

[kenobi65]

Just wondering what the Scout's HD is I think its d8 am I wrong?

You are correct, sir.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The Scout still can't "out rogue" the Rogue class.

My experience has been different. Thus far, nearly all the rogues I've seen in play have emphasized the Tumbling, Balancing, Moving Silently, Hiding aspect of a rogue's skill list. The other stuff is for bards. A Scout is better at that. The rogue needs to contribute well in combat, a d8 hit die, AC bonus, and fighter feats certainly contribute to that. Picking Locks? Our nickname for the fighter's greataxe is "the other key." As things stand now if the rogue flubs the open lock check, we use "the other key" or a Knock spell. So no Open Locks isn't a huge hit. As FireLance has pointed out, the Scout has a lot of ways of dealing with traps other than Disable Device.

There are some few areas in which a rogue can still do better than a scout, but they are few, in my experience.

A rogue in a party with a scout will have plenty of chances to shine, presuming the player takes advantage of the full spectrum of rogue skills.

No. They will have plenty of chances to shine, if they specifically build their rogue to do the things a scout can't. Because in any area the scout is proficient, the scout seems to be better.

I agree, though, that a rogue built as a face-man wouldn't have this problem. I just don't see rogues being built this way, in my experience. I see far more bards built this way.