Good idea or No??

[Corlon]

In my next campaign, instead of running a powerful everyone is tenth level campaign, I was going to start the characters at level 1, but that isn't what i'm asking about. I randomly rolled their races, there are a couple good and bad things abou this I've found...

1. It takes away from the player's character development, but also makes them deal with their unique bonuses and penalties.

2. It lets me give them a small chance of being an azimar, celestial, lycanthrope, and other cool stuff (a bit unbalanced I know, but it symbolizes that they're special) without giving them the huge level penalties

3. A problem is that I've rolled a couple races that might be discriminated against or outlawed, and so I really don't want to put PCs through that, especially because it doesn't fit with my campaign.



Another problem I hope you can help me with: How do I get the party to stop!

Here are a couple quotes "well actually doing (place any action here) requires you to do this and that---" then a resounding "SHUTUP JEFF!!! (this i'm actually involved in, I'm the GM, not him, my rules)

That is just a tad annoying, and I think I can manage it, but this one situation seems to happen a lot.

Townsperson: Its our job to ask questions after nighttime, so please answer truthefully and just be patient.
Curran: "Bite ME"
Robin: "I smack curran, Gm, can I do that"

The problem with this is not just the smacking in itslef (noone probably did this so often in medevil times) but that they don't seem to understand the consequences of having bad behavior infront of an audience, should I just let the PCs figure this out by trial and error??

 

[Saeviomagy]

With the Jeff "problem", have you ever actually told him ahead of time what your changes to the rules are, or are you just not bothering to read the book, and yelling at him for not thinking like you?

The solution to the second problem is to make the NPC's respond to the situation. If player A smacks player B, the NPC (in this case it sounds like a guard, right?) will probably arrest player A. If player B continues to be surly, he'll probably arrest player B too.

 

[Valmur_Dwur]

Yep Jeff is a "Rules Lawyer". The only way to beat him down(figuratively) is to make up a list of DM rules and hand a copy to each player. It should be done before the start of your next campaign and can be done before your next session in this one. IMC I allow for dissention to a point, but if it drags on for more than a couple of minutes I rule and we go. After the session, we can re-visit it and if there was something I did wrong that affected the pc or party then we modify it for the next session. It's hard to tell from the 2nd one if player b is RP'ing or not. Just go with the flow unless we are talking PK'ing. The guardsman(we assume) would find both pc's very suspicious and would ask more questions down at the local pokey. Have the pcs actions have real consequences (and that is a rule that should be in your player handout from up above). Do this a couple of times and if the rowdies don't behave then you need to think about not playing with the disruptive element(s) because the GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN for EVERYONE

 

[Jeph]

Yes, Corlon does read all the books, I just read them more often and have a marvelous eye for detail.

And Corlon, why stop robin from smacking currin? really, he does desserve it. For all of you who are not present at Corlon's game sessions, here's a brief summary of how we got into the smacking problem.

so currin thinks it would be a cool idea to buy a rod of wonder. Corlon says, "that's stupid, they're not reliable at all." I say "yeah, but they can have some pretty neat effects. Like a stream of jems or a fireball." So then the game actually starts. We are walking through the woods, and a random encounter with about 6 dire wolves and 2 displacer beasts is rolled. My pallidin goes into melee, the rogue climbs up a tree and laughs as the beasts try to get to him, Currin's fighter flies up on his gryphen, and robin's celestial sorcerer shoots acid-subbed fireballs onto the wolves (I got cot in four blasts, mind you. Not fun.) Then currin decides he'd like to try out his rod of wonder. he aims it at the center wolf, and suddenly is about 1 foot high. Next round: Oh well, it shrunk with me, I'll try again. Suddenly, currin's character is about 1 inch high. Robin's mage flies over and smacks him.

Then, in a tribal tent-town:
Leader: What are you four doing here?
Currin: Bight me.
Robin: Smack.
Jeph: Don't you have to make an attack roll?
Corlon, Robin, Carter, Currin: SHUT UP JEPH!
Jeph: Sorry.
Leader: Gaurds!
Currin: I fire my rod of wonder at the leader of the tribesman. I roll a....66.
Jeph (looks in DMG): You shrink to 1/6th your height.
Robin: Smacks currin.


this repeated many times, in various situations, including in a mind flayer temple and a mutant managerie, amongh other locals. Really, this is a serious problem in our group.

 

[Jeph]

How could I not forget the height of the problem? It was a wee bit of mutiny in the mindflayer managerie for mutant beings. I had recently, with the party rogue's help, stolen and disposed of that stupid little rod of Wonder. Currin, as expected, was not tooooooo happy......

We were sneaking past a dire tiger, into a narrow 5-foot wide passage, when Currin decided he'd like my palidin's body better if it stopped breathing, pumping blood, and doing all that good stuff. He stood at the corridor mouth, blocking me in to face a mutant dire tiger all by myself, plagued by his *4* whip lashes (at like 18/18/18/13, 1d6+7+1d6 flame) per round.

Naturally, my pallidin didn't want to hur anybody, not even the tiger, they weren't evil and it hadn't done anything, right? So I bull rushed Currin back 5 feet into the corridor, suffering a tiger claw to my backside.

Robin then decides he doesn't like me very much either, but fortunately not before carter notices that I am the only party member able to operate the wand of cure moderate wounds. As Robin fires a Ray of Enfeeblement at me, Carter jostles his arm, disrupting the casting of the spell.

Currin, me being to close to whip, attempts to shove me back into the corridor. He had strength 18, I 22 plus an extra 4 from bull's strength. Guess who won.

My next turn, i shove currin back a few feet then rush into a side-passage, where he can't push me back into the tiger's den.

Turn's out, no pushing involved. With an amazing deal of luck, he manages to yank me out of the corridor with his whip (lasher special ability 3rd hand and a really lucky strength check, him getting a natural 18 and me getting a 3). The tiger then used his mutant ability, a sticking tungue, to make a ranged improved grab, yank me into it's mouth, then munch happily on my bones.

And then guess what they did in thanks for the tiger's participation? huh? what, I ask you?

they coupe de graced it while sleeping off the meal. Jeez, great company for a palidin. I should have seen this comming waaaaaay ahead of time.

-Jeph

 

[Saeviomagy]

1. It's nice to have someone who knows the rules. Presuming he's honest, it saves you from having to remember every rule in the book, and allows you to concentrate on running the adventure. Stop telling him to shut up.

2. WTH is wrong with your players - are you all 13 or something? *snigger snigger* I kill the party paladin! *snigger snigger*

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

#2 is a great problem. It will lead to some charachters feeling useless. If everyone is 10th level charachters, anyone who rolls an ECL +0 race will be outclassed by anyone who rolls half-dragon ogre or Orcish Werebear or half-fiend drow or Troll. Never being effective is a sure way to kill the fun of the game, and those with less powerful charachters will resent you and anyone luckier than them.
You still need to use the ECL system.

#3 is also a problem, because not everyone can roleplay the outcast, and may resent it, if the race is merely discriminated against. And you must rule out many types of adventure (anything social) if the race is actually outlawed.

 

[Corlon]

yeah, thanks for the impute, and yes, we are all thirteen, or three of us anyway...

But jeph, you make it sound as if your inocent!
I like your rule memorizing, but still, if it gets to slow, I give a ruling, and everyone wants to go on, don't give the huge matmatical equation which makes the damage go up one or two points!

and, yeah, usually its more fun, mabye curran shouldn't play, he seems to cause most of the problems (if you clamped down a bit on the rules anyway Jeph)
mabye andrew, I'll try curran a couple more times...

yeah, most of this stuff I already guessed, about the NPC attitudes and stuff... I get better every session, but thanks!

 

[Anubis]

Yes, Corlon does read all the books, I just read them more often and have a marvelous eye for detail.

And Corlon, why stop robin from smacking currin? really, he does desserve it. For all of you who are not present at Corlon's game sessions, here's a brief summary of how we got into the smacking problem.

so currin thinks it would be a cool idea to buy a rod of wonder. Corlon says, "that's stupid, they're not reliable at all." I say "yeah, but they can have some pretty neat effects. Like a stream of jems or a fireball." So then the game actually starts. We are walking through the woods, and a random encounter with about 6 dire wolves and 2 displacer beasts is rolled. My pallidin goes into melee, the rogue climbs up a tree and laughs as the beasts try to get to him, Currin's fighter flies up on his gryphen, and robin's celestial sorcerer shoots acid-subbed fireballs onto the wolves (I got cot in four blasts, mind you. Not fun.) Then currin decides he'd like to try out his rod of wonder. he aims it at the center wolf, and suddenly is about 1 foot high. Next round: Oh well, it shrunk with me, I'll try again. Suddenly, currin's character is about 1 inch high. Robin's mage flies over and smacks him.

Then, in a tribal tent-town:
Leader: What are you four doing here?
Currin: Bight me.
Robin: Smack.
Jeph: Don't you have to make an attack roll?
Corlon, Robin, Carter, Currin: SHUT UP JEPH!
Jeph: Sorry.
Leader: Gaurds!
Currin: I fire my rod of wonder at the leader of the tribesman. I roll a....66.
Jeph (looks in DMG): You shrink to 1/6th your height.
Robin: Smacks currin.


this repeated many times, in various situations, including in a mind flayer temple and a mutant managerie, amongh other locals. Really, this is a serious problem in our group.

As soon as he tried to push you back into the Dire Tigers reach, you should have killed him. You may be a paladin, but that was an aggresive and evil action.

Corlon, are you enforcing alignments? If so, Curran would only have been allowed to do what he did as a Chaotic Neutral or Chatic Evil. Trying to kill a paladin is a serioud no-no. Robin should have been stopped as well without the same alignment.

ANd like I said, the paladin would've been a bit upset and cleave them two for trying to kill them. They were obviously evil, or acting it.

 

[Corlon]

yes, yes I know, it was against their alignment!
In my next sessions, I probably won't have alignment, it just gets in the way... but they should just choose a character they want to act like and continue to. But I didn't tell Jeph not to kill them, he could have said "I smite curran, and then get the next attack"
Curran probably could've killed him though, he made his lasher really good!

These are pretty much the Alignments of the people: Curran: Chaotic Evil (or just on the border), Robin (a true neutral or chaotic neutral that gets pissed off easily) Carter (an extremely mellow [and somtimes clepto] probably true neutral person) Jeph (... anything)

But thanks for the imput, to think on it I am a bit slack on things like alignment, mabye I'll just let them be their alignments (like chaotic evil), and if the other characters get pissed off at that character... then they can ditch him, kill him, arrest him, just do whatever they want .

The main thing I try to focus on is letting people do what they want, but I'll probably get more strict on things in my next campaign.

But you have to admit, this clash of character traits makes more some pretty strange (slightly annoying) sessions.

Thanks again, uh... you can keep the condesending messages coming if you want.