Good Non-d20 systems?

[Rasyr]

Well, now that my internet connection is working again (after a 10 hour outage...), I would like to chime in on this thread as well.

I, too, would like to suggest HARP (big surprise there.. huh? ). It is very customizable, and easy to make it suit your needs..

You can download HARP Lite from the HARP website -- http://www.harphq.com -- It is basically half the actual book, plus there are a number of other free downloads on the website as well.

Another bonus for using HARP is that its author is very easy to talk to and willing to answer many questions, and he actually hangs out on the EN World forums a good bit as well. I have it on good authority that he is also a Black Company fan and may be quite willing to offer suggestions..

Now to use HARP for Black Company, I would quite possibly go with using the level-less options (and maybe the professionless options as well) that can be found here --> http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2004/nov/ -- One written by the auther of HARP, the other written by the author of the HARP supplement, College of Magics. Both are very good, IMHO.

 

[Nuclear Platypus]

I'd say Savage Worlds. It's got roots in wargaming (Rail Wars I think) as well as Deadlands. It could probably do cinematic with ease but also go grim n gritty. The 'spell list' is short and alter the trappings and that attack spell could be a wizard's lightning bolt, a critter's acidic spit, a superhero's eyeblast, the pulp scientist's Tesla gun, etc. The setting books probably add a few more tweaks like Necessary Evil has the superhero stuff, etc.

 

[mythusmage]

In Print: GURPS. Very versatile, and 3e material is easily adapted to 4e. Ars Magica 5e is another good choice and can be a grim and gritty game with the right tweaks. In GURPS powered games you have Hellboy, which could be adapted to a regular GURPS game. In regular GURPS books keep a look out for Cabal, Undead, Bloodtypes, Horror, and Spirits for use along with the 4e versions of Magic and Fantasy. A favorite activity among GURPS fans is combining setting and source books. Say, Napoleon, Goblins, and Fantasy (4e). Napoleon Bonaparte as a gnome and Horatio Nelson a hob with flying ships and enchanted artillery.

OOP: Mythus is my choice and can be very grim and gritty with the right people. (And if you like howls of outrage from your powergamers and munchkins, enforce the rules on playing a sorcerer or witch. Nasty. )

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

Of all the fantasy systems I've played....

I liked the advancement system in Hero best. While it largely dealt with well, superheroes, you can easily tone down the point-buy & make a great game even without Hero fantasy. And the advancement system (based on recieving points you spend to up exsiting stats & equipment) really works well.

But....

Do you like math? Can you add, multiple, subtract & divide fractions? Is algebra and math equations that dwarf the SAT math section your idea of fun?

I mean it. Hero's gotten more people through high school math classes than any other RPG system I know of. If you can find it, the Heromaker software makes making charaters a breeze.

Fair warning. A Hero Guru can make Zues, Lord Almighty on the same points most people would be hard pressed to make Peasent Scmuck.

If you put in the effort, you'll be rewarded.

Also (Call of Cthullu is pretty fun in a fantasy world), but doesn't sound what you'd like.

Later

 

[Krieg]

I've been researching through some of the various systems that you folks have put forth and HARP seems to be pretty close to what I'm looking for I think.

Make sure you get the revised 2nd printing. It has 192 pages vs the original's 160.

 

[Altalazar]

I liked the rules for Call of Cthulu. I also have really enjoyed playing Runequest - I think that is my favorite alternate fantasy system - I played that back when 2E was new. I think I played a slightly modified form of it, but it was pretty close to kosher.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

There honestly is not a LOT of good diversity out there because D&D has controlled the market for so long. Many people wonder why they should play anything else. However, some people like: GURPS, Palladium Fantasy, Exalted, Warhammer Fantasy, Stormbringer and HERO.

 

[diaglo]

Dungeons & Dragons

OD&D(1974) is the only true game.

 

[MonsterMash]

I like the BRP system (RuneQuest2, Call of Cthulhu) and that can be customised to make a good setting based fantasy system. Personally I do actually like aspects of the D20 system and tend to largely play D20 systems at the moment.

 

[fuindordm]

I had a great, long-running fantasy campaign using Fantasy Hero.

Advantages:

1) You can build any game effect you want within the system, and it's not even difficult to do so--it's just a matter of choosing the base effect, advantages and disadvantages then doing some arithmetic.

2) You can build any kind of character you want just as easily. The process is 100% point-buy, and taking disadvantages gets you more points to spend--but also gives the DM permission, nay, an obligation to mess with your character (e.g. Hunted by Organization was one of my favorites).

3) Characters typically earn 1-3 character points per game session--about the cost of a skill or stat increase. You could very easily, if you wish, assign 50% of earned experience yourself to skills used in the game to get the kind of use-it-or-lose-it feel that you want.

Disadvantages:

1) It requires a lot of work on the GMs part to create new monsters and NPCS--but perhaps no more than in D20 these days (both are essentially budgeting problems)

2) Just because the SYSTEM allows the characters to do anything, doesn't mean that the SETTING should allow it. The GM needs to rule over the character creation and development with an iron fist, vetoing any improvements that violate the precepts of the setting. This can be frustrating for the players at times--the wizard wants to research a Flying spell, and you don't allow it, or the warrior wants to buy up their speed to six, and you won't allow it...

3) In a simiar vein, you have to make sure that the power level of the game doesn't get out of hand. One of the reasons I went back to D&D after 4 years of HERO is that I was tired of the tightrope walk between easily ignored popocorn and overwhelming enemies. HERO is a system that works best when all the PCS and their enemies are at exactly the same power level. In D&D a troop of goblins might not threaten an 8th level party, but they will at least whittle them down a little--that kind of encounter is much more difficult in HERO.

In summary, I would highly recommend HERO more for short-term campaigns (say, less than a year) than for long-term campaigns. Not that it can't work for long term campaigns, but it takes a lot more work to make it work.

Ben