Good PCs Attacking a Neutral Temple

[heirodule]

It would have been a very low sense motive check for the cleric to have noticed the domination on the sorceror.

 

[GreatLemur]

Holy Christ. Happyelf? Awful Forums happyelf?

I don't think that's even remotely true. He's using alignments as intended- general guidelines. These guys were LG, so they should not being doing something so unlawful and recklessly violent.

My point wasn't that Retreater was using alignments incorrectly--although it's a long and open debate whether alignments should determine character behavior or vice-versa--but that the alignment system itself is bad idea, and clearly a stumbling block in this particular instance. Instead of being "Lawful Good," I'd rather describe this Cleric as "a violent, suspicious, overzearlous hothead". Instead of saying "they can't attack that temple; they're Good and it's Neutral", I'd rather say "The priests haven't done anything wrong that the PCs are sure of, and their religion isn't typically considered a dangerous one. It's pretty suspicious and overzearlous to attack their temple with such little evidence."

This is also not true. If a temple was 'uttely' evil, they would be doing evil things, and might be a legitimate target for any number of reasons.

As billd91 implied, I think you can draw a distinction between being evil and doing evil. Or, for that matter, between doing evil and committing crimes. And, when you really come down to it, even if the temple has been breaking the law, and even if the PCs could prove that to the authorities, their pretty-much-unprovoked attack on the temple still sounds pretty illegal. It depends on local laws, of course, but I know that in our society, it ain't okay to break into a dude's house and kill him, even if he's later proven to be a murderer. Sure, this is D&D, but these guys ain't a bunch of goblins out in the wilderness. The finer points of this legal situation are pretty much open for the DM to determine, I figure.

 

[maddman75]

The logical consequences for their actions, would seem arrest, imprisonment, trial, and execution (for those who actually attacked to kill; the second cleric, who merely supported the combat by healing her injured comrades, would likely be imprisoned for a long time for being an accomplice). Their investigations around town would suggest premeditation for the crime.

I'm just concerned about punishing the players too severely. This would be about the equivalent of a TPK to arrest and imprison/execute 4 party members. The sorcerer is doing his own thing in the temple, and the paladin and fighter are working as informants for the town guard. Even if the 4 party members break out of jail or evade arrest, it's unlikely the other three will join them.

The lesson I've learned? All dungeon crawls against obvious evils from now on!

Retreater

On the contrary, I think you have a chance for some great gaming. I agree that you're getting hung up on the alignment issue. Pretend it doesn't exist - not that they attacked a Neutral temple - they attacked a temple.

Don't worry about punishing your PCs. They aren't kindergarteners and you aren't their teacher. Just do something cool - where's the coolest place that it could go from here. A trial, with the other PCs pleading for their friends' life? A daring jailbreak? Maybe these neutral clerics reveal some dastardly plan, and it can be proven that gets the PCs off the hook. Or hell, maybe ninjas attack right as they're getting ready for a-hangin.

 

[Retreater]

It would have been a very low sense motive check for the cleric to have noticed the domination on the sorceror.

DC 15 I think. And he did fail it. Nor was he able to Spellcraft the school of magic that affected the sorcerer.

I agree that Vecna would be an excellent choice.

Vecna's not listed in my World of Greyhawk Boxed Set as a deity, so I didn't even think of him. However, he doesn't seem to have the connections with the Suel, which is what I'm going for.

Retreater

 

[Vanye]

The logical consequences for their actions, would seem arrest, imprisonment, trial, and execution (for those who actually attacked to kill; the second cleric, who merely supported the combat by healing her injured comrades, would likely be imprisoned for a long time for being an accomplice). Their investigations around town would suggest premeditation for the crime.

Hoow about arrest, imprisonment, trial, and as punishment....they become servitors of the temple for 1 year.

Servitors who conveniently get sent to the next section of the module....*insert evil laugh here*

 

[LostSoul]

On the contrary, I think you have a chance for some great gaming. I agree that you're getting hung up on the alignment issue. Pretend it doesn't exist - not that they attacked a Neutral temple - they attacked a temple.

Don't worry about punishing your PCs. They aren't kindergarteners and you aren't their teacher. Just do something cool - where's the coolest place that it could go from here. A trial, with the other PCs pleading for their friends' life? A daring jailbreak? Maybe these neutral clerics reveal some dastardly plan, and it can be proven that gets the PCs off the hook. Or hell, maybe ninjas attack right as they're getting ready for a-hangin.

Listen to Maddman. Maddman is wise.