good PrC for a psion

[Malum]

many people I know have been going with the Elocater and deep impact feat more than makes up for subpar bab or so several players feel.

 

[werk]

CPsi has the Anarchic Initiate PrC, which is almost too good not to take.

I should have said I don't have CompletePsi yet, so can't comment on those.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Why not just stay psion and not prestige class?

Briefly looking at the expanded psionics handbook there aren't any PRCs that are just better psions.

 

[KarinsDad]

Are you taking into account the Metamind's Free Manifesting allows one to augment higher than a normal Psion can? It's an important intangible of the class. Not that the Metamind is good as is, it sucks. But maybe 9 manifester levels is a bit much.

Yes, I took Free Manifesting into account (33 PP) and no, it does not allow them to augment higher than a normal Psion.

Free Manifesting (Ps): At 1st level, a metamind can manifest any 1st-level power he knows for free (without spending power points) three times per day.
At higher levels, a metamind gains the ability to freely manifest additional higher-level powers: three 2nd-level powers per day at 3rd level; one 3rd-level power per day at 5th level; one 4th-level power per day at 7th level; and one 5th-level power per day at 9th level.
This benefit applies only to the power point cost of an unaugmented power. Points spent to augment a power and an experience point cost (if any) must be paid as normal.

I see nothing in the errata that changes this.

So, with my proposed house rule, here is the comparison:

Psion 15 with Int 20 has 8th level powers and 232 PP

Psion 5 / Metamind 10 with Int 20 has 7th level powers and

170 PP for 14th manifesting level
35 PP for Intelligence
3 PP for 3 first level Free Manifesting
9 PP for 3 second level Free Manifesting
5 PP for 1 third level Free Manifesting
7 PP for 1 fourth level Free Manifesting
9 PP for 1 fifth level Free Manifesting
11 PP in cognizant psicrystal (which means he cannot us all 11 every day without pulling from his normal pool)

249 PP total plus

140 PP = max from Font of Power (14 manifesting level * 10 rounds) unless he has a feat like Overchannel

Grand Total about 389 PP

But, the psion gives up a manifesting level and two feats to gain the extra 157 PP. Pros and Cons.

 

[Soulglow]

I'll explain better. Let's say I'm Psion 5/Metamind 10 for a 10 ML and 10 pt. cap on pp spent on any one power. So if I manifest a 5th level power normally, the power costs 9 points allowing me to augment only another 1 point. If I use Free Manifesting for that 5th level power, I can spend 10 pts on augmenting that power. This is what I was referring to in my initial post. This is more potent when you consider augmented lower-level powers often outshine higher-level powers.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'll explain better. Let's say I'm Psion 5/Metamind 10 for a 10 ML and 10 pt. cap on pp spent on any one power. So if I manifest a 5th level power normally, the power costs 9 points allowing me to augment only another 1 point. If I use Free Manifesting for that 5th level power, I can spend 10 pts on augmenting that power. This is what I was referring to in my initial post. This is more potent when you consider augmented lower-level powers often outshine higher-level powers.

This is correct. However, the inevitable response to the contrary would probably be best taken to another thread.

 

[green slime]

I'm actually partial to the Thrallherder myself, but for the note that you exclude yourself from taking the Leadership feat. Which just seems so very counter to common sense, IMO.

The metamind definitely needs a fix. Check the house rules section for some suggestions there.

 

[Someone]

I'm actually partial to the Thrallherder myself, but for the note that you exclude yourself from taking the Leadership feat. Which just seems so very counter to common sense, IMO.

With potentially two Thralls and one cohort, that would turn the Thrallherd into the One-Man party.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'll explain better. Let's say I'm Psion 5/Metamind 10 for a 10 ML and 10 pt. cap on pp spent on any one power. So if I manifest a 5th level power normally, the power costs 9 points allowing me to augment only another 1 point. If I use Free Manifesting for that 5th level power, I can spend 10 pts on augmenting that power. This is what I was referring to in my initial post. This is more potent when you consider augmented lower-level powers often outshine higher-level powers.

1) If Free Manifesting really gave this level of augmentation, it would explicitly state so in its description. It does not. It does not make sense that if this was the real intended benefit of Free Manifesting, that the designers would not have mentioned it.

2) PsiHB page 54 "A power that can be augmented for additional effect is also limited by your manifester level.". Your manifester level, not just the PP you can spend.

3) Later on that same page, it states "In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your manifester level, this adjustment applies not only to all effects based on manifester level but also to your manifester level check to overcome your target's power resistance and to the manifester level used in dispel checks." Free Manifesting does not once state that it increases the manifester level, hence, this sentence does not apply to it.

4) Free Manifesting does, however, state: "This benefit applies only to the power point cost of an unaugmented power. Points spent to augment a power and an experience point cost (if any) must be paid as normal." Augmenting above your manifester level is not normal.

5) A clarification of this is not in the FAQ or the PsiHB errata.

6) This ability is similar to the Torc of Power Preservation. It too lowers the PP cost of using powers. But, it too has no wording about allowing a creature to augment at a greater level than his manifesting level. So, we are expected to believe that twice the designers meant for augmentation to go above manifesting level in the book, but they did not mention it either time like they do with Overchannel?


Now, I understand that portions of the RAW state that you can augment a power as long as you do not spend more PP than your manifester level. But, nothing in the metamind description or Free Manifesting talks about effectively bumping up the manifesting level of powers. Hence, they do not. The metamind text talks about gaining Power Points (which, of course, it does not really do until Font of Power).

Btw, I was not taking Schism, Quickened Powers, etc. in my Font of Power PP estimates above. You can go nuts with the proper powers and feats once per day with Font of Power.

I also understand that allowing a Psion 5 / Metamind 9 the ability to augment to level 18 with a 5th level power does balance it out a little as written (because metaminds are so weak as written). However, the ability to manifest 9 levels above your maximum (even when your max was dropped by 5 levels) seems a bit potent.

 

[superkurt13]

Has anyone ever played a Crystal Master or Mediant? I looked those up on the web and they look great. The meditations a Meditant uses give all kinds of great bonuses, you eventually can become ethereal, and you only give up 1 level (it is pretty feat intensive to get into though). Crystal master gives lots of nice bonuses as well and they are all permanent, , and lots of skill points, although you have to give up 2 levels for it.

Now that I look at it it makes sense, if you are a psion, to at least take a Slayer as a PrC. At the expense of loosing only 1 level you gain d8 hit dice, proficiency with all weapons and armor, ful BAB (good for ranged touch powers), and eventual immunity to all mind affecting powers. Not bad for giving up 1 level