At what point are the 3PP's just being pirates like those who are downloading the books for free? I didn't think OGL can allow a company to produce material for a game system they just released, that wasn't even around during its creation. I am all for 3PP support and the more the merrier, but do it the right way and not this "back alley" way. Also a good reason why WotC haven't shut down some of these companies yet is how does it ALWAYS look when the big bully in the business shuts down the little guys trying to chip off a piece?
D&D 5E Goodman Games Announces 5e Modules
- Thread starter Lidgar
- Start date
At what point are the 3PP's just being pirates like those who are downloading the books for free? I didn't think OGL can allow a company to produce material for a game system they just released, that wasn't even around during its creation. I am all for 3PP support and the more the merrier, but do it the right way and not this "back alley" way. Also a good reason why WotC haven't shut down some of these companies yet is how does it ALWAYS look when the big bully in the business shuts down the little guys trying to chip off a piece?
I think WotC just may not say anything deliberately, to give themselves the ability to C&D a Pathfinder 2.0 for instance, while letting modules and other content slide by unopposed.
Talked to the Frog God folks at PaizoCon; I think they just are pretty secure in their ability to legally defend themselves (see the entire "having a judge and lawyer as core employees" bit).
Talked to the Frog God folks at PaizoCon; I think they just are pretty secure in their ability to legally defend themselves (see the entire "having a judge and lawyer as core employees" bit).
Game systems are not protected by copyright. I don't think a company that increases the utility of something you bought from another company can be considered the same as people that directly steal income from that company by not paying for a product they acquire.
Pretty sure this is the entire definition of corruption. We can win, because we LITERALLY are the law.
Why can't a game system be protected by copyright? Its someones creation just like someones movie, novel, etc..
How did Pathfinder increase the "utility" of D&D 3.5? If D&D 3.5 (Official) material was still produced how would any of the 3.5 systems help its utility?
Patrick McGill
First Post
Wha? It would be corruption if the employee that is a judge presided over the theoretical case of copyright litigation. Which won't happen at all. How is the judge and lawyer working for the company evidence of court room corruption?
goodmangames
First Post
In reference to the below concern -- Sir Brennan, you have a legitimate point. Having published modules for 3.0, 3.5, and 4E, I know there are multiple reasons why the first-gen releases may need revision. These include publisher learnings; edition revisions (i.e., 3.0->3.5); and licensor updates (not well known, but the early versions of the 4E rules we received had minor discrepancies from the final versions in many ways, so our early 4E early modules had small "inaccuracies" when compared to the published 4E rules, although they were accurate relative to the early reads we received from WotC).
It is for exactly this reason that every 5E module we print will include a code usable for a free PDF download edition. That digital version will continue to be updated, as needed, due to any concerns related to the reasons noted above. Therefore you can purchase with no concern over rules revisions; print purchasers will always have access to a version of the module updated to whatever the latest rules set and/or learnings may be.
Swing by at Gen Con and see for yourself!
As for those who can't attend Gen Con, we will have print+PDF version available through other distribution channels shortly after Gen Con.
Finally, if anyone is concerned about how this reflects support for DCC RPG…don't be! As you all know, we've supported multiple game systems for years. DCC RPG has grown to 30+ products (from Goodman Games), not counting dozens more through 3PP, while we also supported our Age of Cthulhu line, re-launched Metamorphosis Alpha, published Xcrawl, and did a few other things. At Gen Con we're releasing two 5E modules. And SEVEN products for DCC RPG. There's no planned tradeoff between the two lines. So, yeah, if you want to play DCC RPG, there are some options. And now a few more options for 5E, too!
Thanks,
Joseph
It is for exactly this reason that every 5E module we print will include a code usable for a free PDF download edition. That digital version will continue to be updated, as needed, due to any concerns related to the reasons noted above. Therefore you can purchase with no concern over rules revisions; print purchasers will always have access to a version of the module updated to whatever the latest rules set and/or learnings may be.
Swing by at Gen Con and see for yourself!
As for those who can't attend Gen Con, we will have print+PDF version available through other distribution channels shortly after Gen Con.
Finally, if anyone is concerned about how this reflects support for DCC RPG…don't be! As you all know, we've supported multiple game systems for years. DCC RPG has grown to 30+ products (from Goodman Games), not counting dozens more through 3PP, while we also supported our Age of Cthulhu line, re-launched Metamorphosis Alpha, published Xcrawl, and did a few other things. At Gen Con we're releasing two 5E modules. And SEVEN products for DCC RPG. There's no planned tradeoff between the two lines. So, yeah, if you want to play DCC RPG, there are some options. And now a few more options for 5E, too!
Thanks,
Joseph
Wait, there were 4E third party products?
While I'm all for 3rd party support of the new edition, I'm not going to be buying either Goodman's or Necromancer's early offerings, for the simple fact that they are so early.
Much of the first 3E material that went out was sub-par for the simple fact that companies hadn't really gotten a handle on the rules yet. This was especially evident in material that actually came out before the core rulebooks or so soon thereafter as to be practically concurrent. Most of the development for those products was done before the rules were really fully understood or even available. Or, in some cases, products had the feel of being created for a completely different system then adapted to 3E at the last minute. Iron Kingdoms was a prime example of a setting I really, really liked, but found the understanding of the 3E rules (or, I suspect, their adaption) by the writers to be horrible.
I mean, really, WotC will be presenting their plans for 3rd party after all the books are out. Part of this delay is them still working out the details internally, but it's also been stated as a quality concern, wanting to make sure everyone understands the game before diving in with new products. They're obviously willing to work with 3rd parties, having some key products for the new edition launch produced by another company. Why the need to jump the gun? Because you can?
Plus knowing the legal hoops these guys are jumping through to do this via the original OGL is somewhat of a turnoff to me as well. Take that big banner on the Goodman products: "Fifth Edition Fantasy". Ugh. It makes this conversation happen in my head:
Publisher: "So, you, uh, going to get buy our Fifth Edition Fantasy books? Know what I mean?"
Me: "Fifth Edition of what?"
Publisher: "Oh, you know. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge."
Me: "Well, I suppose I do."
Publisher: "Right, right. Say no more, say no more. Wink, wink."
[Awkward pause]
Publisher: "So, you, uh, have you ever played Fifth Edition?"
Me: "Yes, I have."
Publisher: "What's it like?"
I suppose it's a savvy move from a marketing perspective for these companies, since we're all talking about them. But a product that's pretty much the equivalant of being a "First!" post in a comment thread is not enough to get me interested anymore. I'm going to be cutting back on book purchases for this edition, and will be paying close attention to buzz and reviews of 3rd party products. You better demomstrate both quality content and execution for me to hand you my money this time.
The whole point of the OGL and the original d20 license was to utilize "network externalities" to increase the value of the core game books, thereby driving sales of those core books. Lots of good info here from the man who conceived the idea in the first place.
The long and short of it is that the more adventures and settings out there, the more likely someone will feel they can make the investment in the rulebooks to play the game. WotC only has to worry about whether someone tries to compete with those core book sales, which is why we won't see an OGL for 5E because it would be a lot harder to pull that off using the old license.
Majoru Oakheart
Adventurer
You can copyright the exact text of a work. You can't copyright the concept of "roll a dice, get higher than a number". That's a process. You'd technically need a patent rather than copyright to protect it. Though, the patent of using dice to determine the result is likely so vague that it would never be granted.
Though, I'm not a lawyer, I just read a lot about patent and copyright law.
It doesn't, its just very VERY possible. No they would never be allowed to proceed over the case as a Judge, that would be too obvious, but its naive to think they have friends or people they know among the ranks. That being said, just because one Judge and Lawyer feel one way, doesn't mean the others will so who knows what will happen if anything.
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