Goodman is clearly going to the GSL.

[jgerman]

Well, it is very possible that WOTC altered the 4E GSL "at will" for Goodman because he asked nicely and at the right time.

OR he could be doing it under copyright laws before October 1, and then going GSL by October 1. It isn't like Goodman would be violating the GSL by doing that. Plus I doubt it would upset WOTC. They would applaud his savvy and take note of it for their next license. Then welcome him to the GSL family.

Certainly, but at that point it's no longer the GSL, it's a separate agreement between Goodman and WotC. Once you relax the one restriction it's no longer the same contract.

It sounds like nit picking but it's not. It could be the case that it's a special agreement that is identical to the GSL save for the release date clause, I'd say that's unlikely though. If you take the position that GG negotiated a separate licensing agreement it seems unlikely that the only thing they'd want changed is the release date. It's certainly possible though, since GG may highly value the ability to release early at Gencon.

But what we know is this: it is not the GSL. It absolutely cannot be because of the release date clause. The consequence of that is that the other things that are occurring (sellling off the 3e stock) can't be used as evidence of ... well anything really. We're all just guessing... not that there's anything wrong with that.

If it were me, and I were trying to run a business based on 3rd party D&D material I would completely ignore the GSL and try to negotiate a separate contract. Paying royalties for some of the restrictions to be relaxed, particularly in the area of what stat blocks can be included, would be a small price to pay.

As an aside, for my stuff, which I'm not trying to base a business on, the GSL is fine. I wouldn't be the licensee directly I don't think. So I suppose I better figure out how to form a company that can legally sign up.

 

[Treebore]

Certainly, but at that point it's no longer the GSL, it's a separate agreement between Goodman and WotC. Once you relax the one restriction it's no longer the same contract.

It sounds like nit picking but it's not. It could be the case that it's a special agreement that is identical to the GSL save for the release date clause, I'd say that's unlikely though. If you take the position that GG negotiated a separate licensing agreement it seems unlikely that the only thing they'd want changed is the release date. It's certainly possible though, since GG may highly value the ability to release early at Gencon.

But what we know is this: it is not the GSL. It absolutely cannot be because of the release date clause. The consequence of that is that the other things that are occurring (sellling off the 3e stock) can't be used as evidence of ... well anything really. We're all just guessing... not that there's anything wrong with that.

If it were me, and I were trying to run a business based on 3rd party D&D material I would completely ignore the GSL and try to negotiate a separate contract. Paying royalties for some of the restrictions to be relaxed, particularly in the area of what stat blocks can be included, would be a small price to pay.

As an aside, for my stuff, which I'm not trying to base a business on, the GSL is fine. I wouldn't be the licensee directly I don't think. So I suppose I better figure out how to form a company that can legally sign up.

You could very well be right. However the GSL gives WOTC total control of the license and altering it "at will". So Goodman could still be doing it under the GSL, or not. WOTC could have only altered the license for 5 minutes. Long enough to give Goodman permission. Then altered it back to its original form.

Anyways, Joe G. saying he will forever cease selling 3E PDF's is pretty solid proof that he will be going the GSL. The D20 STL certainly wouldn't stop him. He would delete the logo's from his PDF's and keep on selling them. So the only thing that makes any sense is he will be going to the GSL. There are plenty of unknowns that could change all of that and prove it wrong, but with what is known the GSL fits the facts best.

I would love to be wrong.

 

[Treebore]

A copyright owner can ignore blatant violations for dozens of years and still have full legal authority to assert his rights later.

I seriously doubt that. IF this is true its about the only area of law where this would be true. I'm pretty sure all laws have a "drop dead date". I forget the correct terminology right now. Oh yeah, "Statute of Limitations".

Murder doesn't have such a limitation, but I am pretty sure copyright violations would.

Edit: Yep, I am right. The statute is 3 years.

 

[Alzrius]

You could very well be right. However the GSL gives WOTC total control of the license and altering it "at will". So Goodman could still be doing it under the GSL, or not. WOTC could have only altered the license for 5 minutes. Long enough to give Goodman permission. Then altered it back to its original form.

I don't think it works like that. First of all, such an alteration would have to be publicly posted on the GSL section of WotC's website, so there's a chance that someone would have seen it and brought it to our attention.

Second, and more importantly, is that a company can only publish under the most recent version of the GSL. If WotC made a change for just five minutes beore changing the GSL back (which sounds fairly ridiculous), it wouldn't matter - Goodman Games and everyone else would still be bound by the most-recent version of the license. So if WotC changed it for five minutes and then changed it back, that doesn't let Goodman Games publish anything under it prior to the October 1st date.

Anyways, Joe G. saying he will forever cease selling 3E PDF's is pretty solid proof that he will be going the GSL.

Just to nitpick, he's apparently only ceasing the sale of OGL DCC's. And as others have noted, that doesn't seem to necessarily be proof of anything.

 

[tenkar]

Just to nitpick, he's apparently only ceasing the sale of OGL DCC's. And as others have noted, that doesn't seem to necessarily be proof of anything.

i believe the DCCs are published under the D20 license, not the OGL.

 

[Treebore]

Just to nitpick, he's apparently only ceasing the sale of OGL DCC's. And as others have noted, that doesn't seem to necessarily be proof of anything.

3E PDF's. 3E PDF's. 3E PDF's. The GSL is the only reason to stop selling 3E PDF's. The only reason. The D20 STL sure wouldn't stop him.

So yes, not selling PDF's after "an unspecified future date" is very solid evidence for the GSL. Certainly better evidence than for any other known reason.

IF he was doing this with only print stock I could at least buy into the D20 STL reason. He is not. This is about PDF's. Easy to alter PDF's. The only known factor that could make Joe stop selling them is the GSL and becoming compatible with it.

I certainly hope I am wrong. Goodman Games is of much more interest to me if they remain in the OGL market. So I hope there is some unknown trick Joe is going to do.

So until he releases a DCC after October 1st without a GSL license in it, I'll go with what the evidence indicates. OR Joe clears it up before then.

Heck, maybe Joe won't be selling 3E PDF's because he is too lazy to bother with removing the D20 STL logos. It would shock me if that is why, but its within the realm of possibility.

 

[Treebore]

i believe the DCCs are published under the D20 license, not the OGL.

Actually, they are currently under the D20 STL and the OGL.

 

[jgerman]

You could very well be right. However the GSL gives WOTC total control of the license and altering it "at will". So Goodman could still be doing it under the GSL, or not. WOTC could have only altered the license for 5 minutes. Long enough to give Goodman permission. Then altered it back to its original form.

It doesn't work like that, Goodman would be required to ahere to the mose recent version. The stuff coming out in August simply cannot be under the GSL. Well, unless Goodman knew that WotC was going to change that restriction prior to the August release date, but that seems like a stretch.

Anyways, Joe G. saying he will forever cease selling 3E PDF's is pretty solid proof that he will be going the GSL. The D20 STL certainly wouldn't stop him. He would delete the logo's from his PDF's and keep on selling them. So the only thing that makes any sense is he will be going to the GSL. There are plenty of unknowns that could change all of that and prove it wrong, but with what is known the GSL fits the facts best.

I would love to be wrong.

Well the point is that that isn't proof at all. Nothing can be determined from that sell off other than that Goodman is not supporting 3e. Goodman could have entered into an entirely separate licensing agreement where WotC still requires him to stop supporting 3e.

The argument that GG ceasing to sell 3E PDFs is proof of him going GSL is fallacious. A simple counter example invalidates it: Goodman is under a separate non-GSL license that requires him to stop selling 3e materials. The GSL never need come into it.

You can make a fairly strong inductive argument that Goodman is operating under some sort of licensing agreement that requires him (them?) to stop supporting 3e, but what that license is we have no idea.

 

[Delta]

If you have a strong opinion about what Goodman Games is doing for its 4E licensing, be sure to register it in the poll here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=232730

 

[Vocenoctum]

So, have Goodman and WotC publicly just refused to comment on what's going on?