got my Expedition to the Demonweb Pits (mild spoilers)
- Thread starter Bad Paper
- Start date
No, actually. Again, it's a plot twist. You get "envoys," of a sort, for Lolth, Kostchtchie(sp?), and Pazuzu. Unless I missed something, I didn't find a whole lot to do with Orcus. He is integral to the plot, in that the other major players are plotting around him.Nightfall said:
It's not, really. It's just a city where you meet the NPC, again and again. The authors use Sigil because it's an anything-goes city and because you can go anywhere, come back, go somewhere else, come back, etc. It seems like you have your own idea of plane-hopping, and it shouldn't be hard to adapt this to that. As I said before, Baur and Kestrel expect you to alter this to your campaign, and they kept things kinda modular for that reason. The Ysgard side-quest may be more difficult to adapt, though.James Heard said:
I can't agree with most of Retreater's critiques. That is, I can agree, for example, that the plot is convoluted, there are a lot of confusing side-treks, that the cities could use more detail, etc, but I do not agree that these are bad things.
If the plot is too convoluted, the party will ignore it, but if the party wants intrigue, then it's right there. This adventure can be railroaded, but if you are an RP-intensive group, then this will provide you with hours of material. And since a lot of the RP is with manipulative demons, the party may get a little confused...
...then again, would you expect any adventure to a place called "the Demonweb" to be anything but confusing? In this way, the adventure excels above the Harrowing, but that's not fair, because the Harrowing has 15% as many pages. But in Expedition..., the map keeps changing! yay for a nonstatic Abyss!
The amount of material on the cities is just right. Any more, and someone like James Heard who didn't want a treatise on Sigil would feel ripped off, and any less, and someone like me who hates to generate cities on the fly would feel hung out to dry.
I don't know how to respond to Retreater's "everything you need" comment. I haven't found any examples of problems. There are creatures in here that I've never seen, even from Forgotten Realms (I've never read a FR book), and I won't bat an eye at trying to run them. Feats and spells are explained. Dark Speech is even in here, from BoVD, and it is explained in detail. Sure, there are things that overlap with Fiendish Codex I or Frostburn, but you don't need those or any other books. Heck, I don't think you even need the Spell Compendium. And if you need to generate an NPC on the fly, well, they do say that you need the DMG, and there you will find your NPCs, plane descriptions, etc. When they tell you that you need the PH, DMG, and MM, they aren't kidding.
I haven't read Expedition to Ravenloft (I am hoping to be killed many times therein), so I can't compare to that one. I am guessing that Ravenloft feels more cohesive because it doesn't require so much plane-hopping.
A couple of problems I have with EttDP:
1) While the art and player handouts are gorgeous, you need to either destroy the book or make heavy use of a color photocopier to make use of them. tsk tsk. Even the Slathered Plates of Butterworth had a separate players' booklet. There are pics I would love to show to players, sprinkled through the adventure, but, uh, I guess I'll be copying or ignoring them.
2) Despite the sidebar advising "how to get the players to cooperate with the Sigil NPC," I am still not entirely sure that they'll take the bait. I guess that's the big challenge with role-playing.
I think this is a rather inspired piece of work, if only because WotC decided to create the seminal v3.5 drow work. I doubt they will touch drow again until v4, which is fine with me, as I don't even like drow in the first place.
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TheYeti1775
Adventurer
Nightfall said:
Alright tell me about it, ya haven't steered me wrong on Scarred Lands. (Note: waiting on two more shipments and the collection is complete).
I haven't been this disappointed in an adventure module in some time.
I didn't think the information about the cities was sufficient, in particular because I'm a newbie with Planescape. I just think that a few pages to describe an extra-planar metropolis is insufficient.
There are so many other things that I don't understand from reading EttDP. For example, how do you move on the Ash Tree, how do you get down to the roots, what happens if you fall, etc? Is all of this information in Manual of the Planes or what? I mean, this is stuff that is going to come up during the game no matter how you play it.
In E.'s Fane in the Pits, they don't present any stats for E. or her high level followers. Sure, you could make them on your own using the DMG, but these are like 12th level clerics / 7th level fighter drow. That's going to take some time. IMO, the authors should have fully detailed the area or else not required the party go there for a McGuffin item.
There is just so much basic information missing - stuff that any DM would need to run any module - that I wonder if anyone play tested this before it was printed.
I'm sorry if I'm ranting or sounding like a broken record. I just don't have the time to write a review write now, and I'd like to give people a heads up.
Retreater
I didn't think the information about the cities was sufficient, in particular because I'm a newbie with Planescape. I just think that a few pages to describe an extra-planar metropolis is insufficient.
There are so many other things that I don't understand from reading EttDP. For example, how do you move on the Ash Tree, how do you get down to the roots, what happens if you fall, etc? Is all of this information in Manual of the Planes or what? I mean, this is stuff that is going to come up during the game no matter how you play it.
In E.'s Fane in the Pits, they don't present any stats for E. or her high level followers. Sure, you could make them on your own using the DMG, but these are like 12th level clerics / 7th level fighter drow. That's going to take some time. IMO, the authors should have fully detailed the area or else not required the party go there for a McGuffin item.
There is just so much basic information missing - stuff that any DM would need to run any module - that I wonder if anyone play tested this before it was printed.
I'm sorry if I'm ranting or sounding like a broken record. I just don't have the time to write a review write now, and I'd like to give people a heads up.
Retreater
You are neither ranting nor droning. I said above that I have read only 15% of the adventure, so we are bound to have different takes. I just don't have time to tear through this thing and find the problems yet.Retreater said:
In case no one noticed, there's an interview with Baur/Kestrel about this on WotC. It should answer a couple of questions people might have. Even mentions the Harrowing (but not Monte Cook, natch).
There is an overview map of the city wards and major landmarks, as well as a basic orientation to the toric nature of the city, but there's not some crazy gigantic fold-out map or anything. It's certainly not quite as detailed as this one (which I can't help but notice is on a site maintained by you!). Planewalker.com probably has better Sigil info than EttDP.Ambrus said:
Vocenoctum
First Post
Bad Paper said:
I would say odds are good that they will be available online within a month or two.
