D&D 4E Got to play 4E today

[Jack99]

Just out of curiosity...could you perhaps cite an example of the most thoughtful anti-4E argument that you've run across on these boards?

Haven't seen one yet (yes, I realize that I am not the one you asked). 4e is teh win, it's faster, sleeker, smarter and better than all the previous editions put together..

 

[DanChops]

What 4E is trying to do is remove this cycle of suckertude.

You sir, are my hero. I've been trying to come up with a concise way to describe this since GenCon, and this is perfect.

 

[MortalPlague]

I have to comment on this thread.

Thulcondar has earned a great deal of respect in my eyes, both with his initial post and his responses. He wrote an fair, honest critique of 4th Edition from his point of view, even going so far as to outline his biases, and providing things he enjoyed and disliked about the system. And when he was attacked for this opinion, he patiently explained his stance time and time again.

Great post, Thulcondar; it deserved a better thread than this. I hope to read more from you in the future.

 

[Sashi]

Mearls wrote Bo9S? That is news to me..

His name's not on the cover, he wasn't the "developer" but he was the principle designer.

You can tell everything he wrote because it's all got this description/flavor text problem.

I love Iron Heroes, in a completely unhealthy manner. And I've read the book cover to cover a number of times and written a lot of fan work, I can recognize when Mearles writes something because of this stylistic error.

I first noticed this in Dungeonscape, when reading the Factotum. "Wow, this has a lot of unnecessary flavor text written as if it were a description of an ablity, I bet Mearles wrote this."

And he had.

 

[hong]

His name's not on the cover, he wasn't the "developer" but he was the principle designer.

You can tell everything he wrote because it's all got this description/flavor text problem.

I love Iron Heroes, in a completely unhealthy manner. And I've read the book cover to cover a number of times and written a lot of fan work, I can recognize when Mearles writes something because of this stylistic error.

Oh yeah. I mean, yeah, Mearls, pee-pee love and manbabies no doubt about that, but some of his fluff text is cringeworthy. He could take a few lessons from other people... such as **MYSELF**, who would never write anything cringeworthy.

 

[Eridanis]

Kzach, please do not post in this thread again. Everyone else, please stick to the topic.

 

[Jhaelen]

I have to comment on this thread.

Thulcondar has earned a great deal of respect in my eyes, both with his initial post and his responses. He wrote an fair, honest critique of 4th Edition from his point of view, even going so far as to outline his biases, and providing things he enjoyed and disliked about the system. And when he was attacked for this opinion, he patiently explained his stance time and time again.

Great post, Thulcondar; it deserved a better thread than this. I hope to read more from you in the future.

This.
I, too, found the review to be both insightful and balanced. Thanks, Thulcondar!

 

[Fifth Element]

However, to turn your snarky remark into an opportunity to make a real point, there really has been a change in the definition of what an RPG is. Back in the day, the DM would design encounters that would challenge the players. Nowadays, the DM designs encounters to challenge the characters. A very real, and in some ways subtle, difference.

Let's take this assertion to be true, though I don't know that it is. One could then argue that in an RPG, a Role-Playing Game, it should be the characters (the "Role" in "Role-Playing") that should be challenged, not the players. If you're challenging the players instead of the characters, one could argue it's a Game, not a Role-Playing Game. So this difference you posit, if accurate, could be said to turn Games into Role-Playing Games.

Edit: Case in point is something like the Tomb of Horrors. I've never been a fan of adventures like the Tomb, because in it, what the characters (roles) can do is largely irrelevant. It's all about what the players can puzzle out.

 

[PeelSeel2]

Wow!! This thread is amazing. A person posted his thoughts on 4e after a demo and it turned into a snark fest. Great Job!! Some of you are real religious zealots.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I have to comment on this thread.

Thulcondar has earned a great deal of respect in my eyes, both with his initial post and his responses. He wrote an fair, honest critique of 4th Edition from his point of view, even going so far as to outline his biases, and providing things he enjoyed and disliked about the system. And when he was attacked for this opinion, he patiently explained his stance time and time again.

Great post, Thulcondar; it deserved a better thread than this. I hope to read more from you in the future.

Yeah, Thulcondar good going with your initial post. It was fairly insightful for me as well. Thanks.