Grading Encounter Attack Powers
- Thread starter keterys
- Start date
Fedifensor
Explorer
Are you going to convert these to letter grades like you did with the At-Will powers?
Fedifensor
Explorer
Wizard Encounter Powers (1st level)
One problem that I've recently realized with Burning Hands and Force Orb is that they're nothing besides damage...and the damage difference between them and Scorching Burst (an at-will) isn't all that huge.
Burning Hands does 1d6 more damage (+3.5 average damage) than Scorching Burst, over a slightly larger area. But it is a close blast instead of a burst, can be hard to place without hitting allies, and has no secondary effects. If all you need is damage, Scorching Burst can do the job reasonably well. Save your encounter power for something that gives an added effect.
Force Orb is slightly better, because you can avoid hitting allies, and it has a range of 20. It's a good opener for a fight, and good when things have gotten chaotic. That said, unless the damage is enough to kill your target(s), you haven't done anything to hinder them. Also, if you miss the primary target, you get nothing.
Ray of Enfeeblement seems like the power you use against an Elite or Solo - halving the damage of the highest-damage foe on the field is a good thing, especially if its attack can hit multiple PCs.
Chill Strike seems to be the weakest encounter power for 1st level. Single target, no effect if you miss, and even dazed creatures can take a single action to attack...which means even melee foes can attack if they're in range on their turn. It also goes against Fortitude, which is generally higher than Reflex or Will.
Grasping Shadows is a good power - hits multiple targets, does decent damage, functions as area denial to minions, and slows everything it hits. I'd rate it the second best of the bunch.
I have to give the nod to Icy Terrain - it hits multiple foes, knocks them down, and even after they get up they have to go over difficult terrain to get to the party. Same damage as Scorching Burst, but with a good control ability tacked on to the power.
One problem that I've recently realized with Burning Hands and Force Orb is that they're nothing besides damage...and the damage difference between them and Scorching Burst (an at-will) isn't all that huge.
Burning Hands does 1d6 more damage (+3.5 average damage) than Scorching Burst, over a slightly larger area. But it is a close blast instead of a burst, can be hard to place without hitting allies, and has no secondary effects. If all you need is damage, Scorching Burst can do the job reasonably well. Save your encounter power for something that gives an added effect.
Force Orb is slightly better, because you can avoid hitting allies, and it has a range of 20. It's a good opener for a fight, and good when things have gotten chaotic. That said, unless the damage is enough to kill your target(s), you haven't done anything to hinder them. Also, if you miss the primary target, you get nothing.
Ray of Enfeeblement seems like the power you use against an Elite or Solo - halving the damage of the highest-damage foe on the field is a good thing, especially if its attack can hit multiple PCs.
Chill Strike seems to be the weakest encounter power for 1st level. Single target, no effect if you miss, and even dazed creatures can take a single action to attack...which means even melee foes can attack if they're in range on their turn. It also goes against Fortitude, which is generally higher than Reflex or Will.
Grasping Shadows is a good power - hits multiple targets, does decent damage, functions as area denial to minions, and slows everything it hits. I'd rate it the second best of the bunch.
I have to give the nod to Icy Terrain - it hits multiple foes, knocks them down, and even after they get up they have to go over difficult terrain to get to the party. Same damage as Scorching Burst, but with a good control ability tacked on to the power.
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keterys
First Post
Changed to letter grades to see what people think (it's a fuzzier notation and this has a lot of "gut instinct" and "weird circumstance" stuff involved in the process, so figured I'd try it). If you feel strongly one way or another, just let me know. I have the numbers saved.
On the wizard encounters, Mengu - your numbers were pretty close to mine, but let's see... I rated Burning Hands slightly lower than Force Orb because it's lower damage and seems less versatile (range, single target or multi target, enemies only).
You rated Icy Terrain more highly than I did, on par with Grasping Shadows. Can you explain why?
On the wizard encounters, Mengu - your numbers were pretty close to mine, but let's see... I rated Burning Hands slightly lower than Force Orb because it's lower damage and seems less versatile (range, single target or multi target, enemies only).
You rated Icy Terrain more highly than I did, on par with Grasping Shadows. Can you explain why?
keterys
First Post
I tend to rate weaken as a so-so effect. It doesn't provide any bonus to your party and monsters tend to do pretty low damage in the first place and often miss, so it only gives so much.
Breaking Icy Terrain and Grasping Shadows out again so I can more directly compare, since that seems a point of contention:
Same area - Grasping is vs. Will, Icy is vs. Ref, but that's basically a wash.
Grasping Shadows:
Hit: 1d8 and slow.
Effect: Any creature that enters takes Int damage and is slowed.
Icy Terrain:
Hit: 1d6 and prone.
Effect: Difficult terrain.
So I considered Grasping's 'Effect' to be stronger. Grasping really hinders moving through it more and autokills minions.
On the objection to Chill Strike - daze is the most powerful status effect of the level 1s, preventing a monster for opportunity attacking, allowing combat advantage, and even letting you do really rude things like taking a single step back and the creature can no longer attack (since it can't charge or make an attack without moving, and it's reduced to one action). Comparing to Daze Strike, which people do like, it's pretty much the same but with better damage.
Breaking Icy Terrain and Grasping Shadows out again so I can more directly compare, since that seems a point of contention:
Same area - Grasping is vs. Will, Icy is vs. Ref, but that's basically a wash.
Grasping Shadows:
Hit: 1d8 and slow.
Effect: Any creature that enters takes Int damage and is slowed.
Icy Terrain:
Hit: 1d6 and prone.
Effect: Difficult terrain.
So I considered Grasping's 'Effect' to be stronger. Grasping really hinders moving through it more and autokills minions.
On the objection to Chill Strike - daze is the most powerful status effect of the level 1s, preventing a monster for opportunity attacking, allowing combat advantage, and even letting you do really rude things like taking a single step back and the creature can no longer attack (since it can't charge or make an attack without moving, and it's reduced to one action). Comparing to Daze Strike, which people do like, it's pretty much the same but with better damage.
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keterys
First Post
Encounter 1 Reasoning
Cleaning things up so I can add encounter 3s and have room for future additions. In terms of grades, these cover a wider spread of effect than the At-Wills seemed to, and there seem to be less that feel "Wow, that's crazy". It is interesting how close the top at-wills (Righteous Brand, Twin Strike, Scorching Burst, Thunderwave) are to many of these encounter abilities.
*CLERIC*
C / Cause Fear
A- / Divine Glow
B / Healing Strike
B / Wrathful Thunder
My rough order/appraisal:
Divine Glow is a decent close blast that hits enemies only and can give multiple allies a bonus to attack.
Healing Strike does decent damage, marks, and has a decent heal.
Wrathful Thunder does low damage, but adds daze which is a very solid status.
Cause Fear is a bit too specialized and it's too easy to just move back. It can trigger some nice OAs, but I think it's the worst of the lot.
*FIGHTER*
C+ / Covering Attack
C / Passing Attack
C- / Spinning Sweep
C+ / Steel Serpent Strike
Steel Serpent Strike and Covering Attack both do decent damage and have pretty reasonable secondary effects, but they're nothing special.
Passing Attack can be quite good, but I dropped it a little because if you miss on the first attack you don't get to shift or make a secondary attack. Its second attack also must be on a different target.
Spinning Sweep does low damage and knocks prone. It seems just worse than Steel Serpent Strike except in some very specific combat advantage granting circumstances.
*PALADIN*
B- / Fearsome Smite
B+ / Piercing Smite
B / Radiant Smite
C / Shielding Smite
All powers deal 2W base damage which is pretty much my assumed baseline for a level 1 encounter power. Shielding Smite is a Cha attack that gives someone Wis to AC, and frankly I think Cha attacks that require a good Wis to be meaningful lose a point due to poor stat synergy. Also I think AC to one ally is not that impressive. Fearsome Smite, as a Cha attack that gives a Wis penalty to attacks seems a far better implementation in many cases. Piercing Smite targets Reflex which is nice, and marks a lot of enemies, so seems even better. I'm assuming that dealing radiant damage is an advantage given the amount of vulnerability to radiant, synergy with other items and powers, and things like preventing regeneration on some undead - add on a solid Wis kicker for damage.
*RANGER*
B+ / Dire Wolverine Strike
B+ / Evasive Strike
B+ / Fox's Cunning
A- / Two-Fanged Strike
Fox's Cunning is just low damage and low effect - while I concede the Ranger could potentially get away with using Twin Strike and having some encounter powers for really specialized or reactive things, it just seems poor. Dire Wolverine Strike is a close burst 1 that hits enemies only. Great for minion killing and such. Evasive Strike on a Wis built Ranger is a very impressive amount of shift before or after the attack. Two-Fanged Strike is potentially the top damage power for encounter 1s.
*ROGUE*
B / Dazing Strike
B / King's Castle
A- / Positioning Strike
B- / Tortuous Strike
Tortuous Strike is quite respectable damage, but I actually consider it the clunker of the rogue options at this level. Dazing Strike is basically the same as Thundering Wrath - it sacrifices a bit of damage to daze, which is a great effect. King's Castle targets Reflex which is nice and allows you to swap places with an adjacent ally. I'd say it's worse than Piercing Smite, to make a cross-class comparison though. I think Positioning Strike is the clear winner at this level - while it deals slightly less damage, it targets Will and can slide an enemy a huge distance.
*WARLOCK*
A- / Diabolic Grasp
B / Dreadful Word
C+ / Vampiric Embrace
A- / Witchfire
All the powers do roughly the same damage. Dreadful Word and Vampiric Embrace are only ranged 5, which is a detriment. After that, it's mostly comparing special effects. Vampiric Embrace gives a moderate amount of temporary hp - at level 1 it's actually a pretty large amount, but it doesn't stack with dark one's blessing and it doesn't really help your team. And it targets Fortitude, with necrotic damage. Diabolic Grasp slides a large number of squares, which I consider very powerful. Witchfire gives a huge penalty to attacks. Dreadful Word I wanted to score lower, but it does give a large penalty to Will defense so can potentially set up some other serious power.
*WARLORD*
C+ / Guarding Attack
A- / Hammer and Anvil
B- / Leaf on the Wind
A / Warlord's Favor
Guarding Attack is slightly better than Shielding Smite, because it doesn't have the Cha/Wis problem - it'll be a big bonus to AC. It is restricted to just attacks by the target, but it still struck me as better. Leaf on the Wind is okay damage and lets you potentially do a nice setup move. Hammer and Anvil targets Reflex and can potentially be the top damage power of the encounter 1s if you're in a good setup with an ally. Top notch stuff. Warlord's Favor does solid damage and gives a huge bonus to attacks. Given an ally can then action point, burn dailies or good encounters, it's probably one of the best power plays of the encounter 1s.
*WIZARD*
C+ / Burning Hands
B+ / Chill Strike
B+ / Force Orb
A- / Icy Terrain
C- / Ray of Enfeeblement
A- / Grasping Shadows
Ray of Enfeeblement really isn't all that much damage for a single target effect and weaken is cool, but not exactly impressive when used on a monster (instead of a PC), so I consider it the clunker of the bunch. Burning Hands is a solid area and there are definite uses for close powers, but it's not exceptional. Chill Strike is basically just like Dazing Strike and Thundering Wrath, but more damage. Quite solid. Force Orb is decent single target damage and/or a area burst 1 that hits enemies only, and it's very long range. I would rate it higher if you got the secondary attacks even if you missed the primary, but you'll see a lot of people just hit the ground with it. Icy Terrain is an area burst which is always appreciated and it knocks prone and creates an area of difficult terrain. It's not an amazing power, but it's still one of the best options at this level. I think Grasping Shadows is slightly stronger in terms of the Effect of its Zone, but they both have their uses.
Cleaning things up so I can add encounter 3s and have room for future additions. In terms of grades, these cover a wider spread of effect than the At-Wills seemed to, and there seem to be less that feel "Wow, that's crazy". It is interesting how close the top at-wills (Righteous Brand, Twin Strike, Scorching Burst, Thunderwave) are to many of these encounter abilities.
*CLERIC*
C / Cause Fear
A- / Divine Glow
B / Healing Strike
B / Wrathful Thunder
My rough order/appraisal:
Divine Glow is a decent close blast that hits enemies only and can give multiple allies a bonus to attack.
Healing Strike does decent damage, marks, and has a decent heal.
Wrathful Thunder does low damage, but adds daze which is a very solid status.
Cause Fear is a bit too specialized and it's too easy to just move back. It can trigger some nice OAs, but I think it's the worst of the lot.
*FIGHTER*
C+ / Covering Attack
C / Passing Attack
C- / Spinning Sweep
C+ / Steel Serpent Strike
Steel Serpent Strike and Covering Attack both do decent damage and have pretty reasonable secondary effects, but they're nothing special.
Passing Attack can be quite good, but I dropped it a little because if you miss on the first attack you don't get to shift or make a secondary attack. Its second attack also must be on a different target.
Spinning Sweep does low damage and knocks prone. It seems just worse than Steel Serpent Strike except in some very specific combat advantage granting circumstances.
*PALADIN*
B- / Fearsome Smite
B+ / Piercing Smite
B / Radiant Smite
C / Shielding Smite
All powers deal 2W base damage which is pretty much my assumed baseline for a level 1 encounter power. Shielding Smite is a Cha attack that gives someone Wis to AC, and frankly I think Cha attacks that require a good Wis to be meaningful lose a point due to poor stat synergy. Also I think AC to one ally is not that impressive. Fearsome Smite, as a Cha attack that gives a Wis penalty to attacks seems a far better implementation in many cases. Piercing Smite targets Reflex which is nice, and marks a lot of enemies, so seems even better. I'm assuming that dealing radiant damage is an advantage given the amount of vulnerability to radiant, synergy with other items and powers, and things like preventing regeneration on some undead - add on a solid Wis kicker for damage.
*RANGER*
B+ / Dire Wolverine Strike
B+ / Evasive Strike
B+ / Fox's Cunning
A- / Two-Fanged Strike
Fox's Cunning is just low damage and low effect - while I concede the Ranger could potentially get away with using Twin Strike and having some encounter powers for really specialized or reactive things, it just seems poor. Dire Wolverine Strike is a close burst 1 that hits enemies only. Great for minion killing and such. Evasive Strike on a Wis built Ranger is a very impressive amount of shift before or after the attack. Two-Fanged Strike is potentially the top damage power for encounter 1s.
*ROGUE*
B / Dazing Strike
B / King's Castle
A- / Positioning Strike
B- / Tortuous Strike
Tortuous Strike is quite respectable damage, but I actually consider it the clunker of the rogue options at this level. Dazing Strike is basically the same as Thundering Wrath - it sacrifices a bit of damage to daze, which is a great effect. King's Castle targets Reflex which is nice and allows you to swap places with an adjacent ally. I'd say it's worse than Piercing Smite, to make a cross-class comparison though. I think Positioning Strike is the clear winner at this level - while it deals slightly less damage, it targets Will and can slide an enemy a huge distance.
*WARLOCK*
A- / Diabolic Grasp
B / Dreadful Word
C+ / Vampiric Embrace
A- / Witchfire
All the powers do roughly the same damage. Dreadful Word and Vampiric Embrace are only ranged 5, which is a detriment. After that, it's mostly comparing special effects. Vampiric Embrace gives a moderate amount of temporary hp - at level 1 it's actually a pretty large amount, but it doesn't stack with dark one's blessing and it doesn't really help your team. And it targets Fortitude, with necrotic damage. Diabolic Grasp slides a large number of squares, which I consider very powerful. Witchfire gives a huge penalty to attacks. Dreadful Word I wanted to score lower, but it does give a large penalty to Will defense so can potentially set up some other serious power.
*WARLORD*
C+ / Guarding Attack
A- / Hammer and Anvil
B- / Leaf on the Wind
A / Warlord's Favor
Guarding Attack is slightly better than Shielding Smite, because it doesn't have the Cha/Wis problem - it'll be a big bonus to AC. It is restricted to just attacks by the target, but it still struck me as better. Leaf on the Wind is okay damage and lets you potentially do a nice setup move. Hammer and Anvil targets Reflex and can potentially be the top damage power of the encounter 1s if you're in a good setup with an ally. Top notch stuff. Warlord's Favor does solid damage and gives a huge bonus to attacks. Given an ally can then action point, burn dailies or good encounters, it's probably one of the best power plays of the encounter 1s.
*WIZARD*
C+ / Burning Hands
B+ / Chill Strike
B+ / Force Orb
A- / Icy Terrain
C- / Ray of Enfeeblement
A- / Grasping Shadows
Ray of Enfeeblement really isn't all that much damage for a single target effect and weaken is cool, but not exactly impressive when used on a monster (instead of a PC), so I consider it the clunker of the bunch. Burning Hands is a solid area and there are definite uses for close powers, but it's not exceptional. Chill Strike is basically just like Dazing Strike and Thundering Wrath, but more damage. Quite solid. Force Orb is decent single target damage and/or a area burst 1 that hits enemies only, and it's very long range. I would rate it higher if you got the secondary attacks even if you missed the primary, but you'll see a lot of people just hit the ground with it. Icy Terrain is an area burst which is always appreciated and it knocks prone and creates an area of difficult terrain. It's not an amazing power, but it's still one of the best options at this level. I think Grasping Shadows is slightly stronger in terms of the Effect of its Zone, but they both have their uses.
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keterys
First Post
Encounter 3 Reasoning
Initial stab in the dark - hopefully folks can help refine things.
*CLERIC*
A / Blazing Beacon (Only in parties with ranged allies)
A- / Command
C+ / Daunting Light
B- / Split the Sky
Daunting Light does solid damage, radiant, over adequate range. The combat advantage is useful, but not really powerful. Split the Sky looks really nice, until you realize the enemy is just going to stand and charge. I've seen it use a couple times and that's happened every time. Command lets you daze and choose between prone or slid a fair ways, which is a very powerful controlling combo. No damage, though. Blazing Beacon provides a sizable +4 bonus to all ranged attacks against a target for a turn, which can be used for many attacks in a round by most members of the party, including action points, dailies, etc, so gets to be top of the pile.
*FIGHTER*
B / Armor-Piercing Thrust
C / Crushing Blow
D- / Dance of Steel
C / Precise Strike
A / Rain of Blows
B+ / Sweeping Blow
Dance of Steel is strictly worse than a level 1 encounter, oops. Crushing Blow is fine and all, but it's nothing special - on par with many level 1 encounters. Precise Strike is... okay. If you've really got to hit, there's probably a reason, and it'll serve decently if you can't get Armor-Percing Thrust, which targets Reflex and gains Dex to both attack and damage. Only 1W, but that's a very solid power if you're specced right. Sweeping Blow is an enemies only close burst 1 that you get a decent attack bonus to - great for minion killing and mass marking. Rain of Blows does get the top spot for the sheer damagocity that RoB can get with its 3 attacks.
*PALADIN*
C+ / Arcing Smite
B / Invigorating Smite
A- / Righteous Smite
B- / Staggering Smite
Arcing Smite has its uses, but it's pretty lackluster overall. Maybe as a level 1 encounter, like Passing Strike. Staggering Smite is next in order - you can get a very solid push off of that and it does decent damage. Invigorating Smite and Righteous Smite are both very similar. Invigorating actually heals damage and does not go against AC, but requires bloodied. Righteous Smite works on everyone, even the fully healed, but is otherwise pretty standard fare.
*RANGER*
B+ / Cut and Run
A / Disruptive Strike
F / Shadow Wasp Strike
A- / Thundertusk Boar Strike
How does Shadow Wasp Strike appear on the same level as the other three choices? Cut and Run is a solid little power, basically a nice upgrade over level 1's Evasive Strike. Thundertusk Boar Strike is solid damage and can result in a very nice push, and at quite a range too. Disruptive Strike lets you interrupt an enemy's attack by almost guaranteeing it will miss if you hit, which seems invaluable. Of course, I'd not be surprised to see people use it too early to prevent a really good attack, just using it as an action free damage source and minor defensive boost.
*ROGUE*
B+ / Bait and Switch
C+ / Setup Strike
B- / Topple Over
C- / Trickster's Blade
Trickster's Blade is okay - sorta like fighting defensively. Setup Strike is okay, but the advantage only applies to you an no one else, so it compares less well to effects like daze which help a whole party and actually limit the creature. Topple Over primarily looks pretty good because of the very large bonus to attack. Bait and Switch attacks Will and lets you shift several squares - like a combination Leaf on the Wind and Evasive Strike.
*WARLOCK*
B / Eldritch Rain
B / Fiery Bolt
A+ / Frigid Darkness
A- / Otherwind Stride
Eldritch Rain is acceptable damage and a very versatile ranged option, but it has nothing special about it in terms of status effect or damage. Fiery Bolt lets you deal very solid area effect damage to creatures next to the primary target without rolling to hit if you hit the primary. Otherwind Stride can provide a sizable teleport and is great for killing minions or immobilizing some melee types who jumped the back lines or sides. Frigid Darkness is solid damage, sets up combat advantage for all... then gives a massive penalty to AC. This screams 'power play' with setting up multiple dailies (or just one, like Cascade of Blades).
*WARLORD*
B- / Hold the Line
C+ / Inspiring War Cry
B- / Steel Monsoon
A / Warlord's Strike
Inspiring War Cry does reasonable damage and the saving throw is an Effect, which is nice... so it seems decent, but not exceptional. Hold the Line does low damage, but its Effect seems quite handy. Steel Monsoon is feels like a solid baseline - the standard 2W damage and then pretty much 'all allies within 5 can shift 1'. Warlord's Strike is the best of the bunch, probably, especially combined with multiple attack abilities. Using this before your ranger and Rain of Blows fighter goes so they get +6 or so to damage rolls? Killer.
*WIZARD*
A- / Color Spray
B+ / Fire Shroud
B+ / Icy Rays
B / Shock Sphere
B- / Maze of Mirrors
Maze of Mirrors appears reasonable from a pure control standpoint, but doesn't kill minions or avoid allies and is only burst 1, so it feels like a lesser option here. Icy Rays is a versatile ranged option for okay damage with a decent side effect. Comparing to Eldritch Rain, a very similar spell, it does less damage but immobilizes and the target's can be anywhere within 10 of caster (so up to 20 apart) instead of having to be within 5 of each other. Shock Sphere is a nice big area to toss out early on to catch enemies before your allies are too close in their midst. Fire Shroud is a sizable close burst that targets enemies only, so that's quite good. Color Spray gets my nod for best option... close blast 5 is a decent size even if it's not great to be that close, but it's also radiant and can daze a large quantity of foes. Sounds good.
I was sorta asleep typing up this round, so I apologize if there are any blatant errors, ramblings, whatever.
Initial stab in the dark - hopefully folks can help refine things.
*CLERIC*
A / Blazing Beacon (Only in parties with ranged allies)
A- / Command
C+ / Daunting Light
B- / Split the Sky
Daunting Light does solid damage, radiant, over adequate range. The combat advantage is useful, but not really powerful. Split the Sky looks really nice, until you realize the enemy is just going to stand and charge. I've seen it use a couple times and that's happened every time. Command lets you daze and choose between prone or slid a fair ways, which is a very powerful controlling combo. No damage, though. Blazing Beacon provides a sizable +4 bonus to all ranged attacks against a target for a turn, which can be used for many attacks in a round by most members of the party, including action points, dailies, etc, so gets to be top of the pile.
*FIGHTER*
B / Armor-Piercing Thrust
C / Crushing Blow
D- / Dance of Steel
C / Precise Strike
A / Rain of Blows
B+ / Sweeping Blow
Dance of Steel is strictly worse than a level 1 encounter, oops. Crushing Blow is fine and all, but it's nothing special - on par with many level 1 encounters. Precise Strike is... okay. If you've really got to hit, there's probably a reason, and it'll serve decently if you can't get Armor-Percing Thrust, which targets Reflex and gains Dex to both attack and damage. Only 1W, but that's a very solid power if you're specced right. Sweeping Blow is an enemies only close burst 1 that you get a decent attack bonus to - great for minion killing and mass marking. Rain of Blows does get the top spot for the sheer damagocity that RoB can get with its 3 attacks.
*PALADIN*
C+ / Arcing Smite
B / Invigorating Smite
A- / Righteous Smite
B- / Staggering Smite
Arcing Smite has its uses, but it's pretty lackluster overall. Maybe as a level 1 encounter, like Passing Strike. Staggering Smite is next in order - you can get a very solid push off of that and it does decent damage. Invigorating Smite and Righteous Smite are both very similar. Invigorating actually heals damage and does not go against AC, but requires bloodied. Righteous Smite works on everyone, even the fully healed, but is otherwise pretty standard fare.
*RANGER*
B+ / Cut and Run
A / Disruptive Strike
F / Shadow Wasp Strike
A- / Thundertusk Boar Strike
How does Shadow Wasp Strike appear on the same level as the other three choices? Cut and Run is a solid little power, basically a nice upgrade over level 1's Evasive Strike. Thundertusk Boar Strike is solid damage and can result in a very nice push, and at quite a range too. Disruptive Strike lets you interrupt an enemy's attack by almost guaranteeing it will miss if you hit, which seems invaluable. Of course, I'd not be surprised to see people use it too early to prevent a really good attack, just using it as an action free damage source and minor defensive boost.
*ROGUE*
B+ / Bait and Switch
C+ / Setup Strike
B- / Topple Over
C- / Trickster's Blade
Trickster's Blade is okay - sorta like fighting defensively. Setup Strike is okay, but the advantage only applies to you an no one else, so it compares less well to effects like daze which help a whole party and actually limit the creature. Topple Over primarily looks pretty good because of the very large bonus to attack. Bait and Switch attacks Will and lets you shift several squares - like a combination Leaf on the Wind and Evasive Strike.
*WARLOCK*
B / Eldritch Rain
B / Fiery Bolt
A+ / Frigid Darkness
A- / Otherwind Stride
Eldritch Rain is acceptable damage and a very versatile ranged option, but it has nothing special about it in terms of status effect or damage. Fiery Bolt lets you deal very solid area effect damage to creatures next to the primary target without rolling to hit if you hit the primary. Otherwind Stride can provide a sizable teleport and is great for killing minions or immobilizing some melee types who jumped the back lines or sides. Frigid Darkness is solid damage, sets up combat advantage for all... then gives a massive penalty to AC. This screams 'power play' with setting up multiple dailies (or just one, like Cascade of Blades).
*WARLORD*
B- / Hold the Line
C+ / Inspiring War Cry
B- / Steel Monsoon
A / Warlord's Strike
Inspiring War Cry does reasonable damage and the saving throw is an Effect, which is nice... so it seems decent, but not exceptional. Hold the Line does low damage, but its Effect seems quite handy. Steel Monsoon is feels like a solid baseline - the standard 2W damage and then pretty much 'all allies within 5 can shift 1'. Warlord's Strike is the best of the bunch, probably, especially combined with multiple attack abilities. Using this before your ranger and Rain of Blows fighter goes so they get +6 or so to damage rolls? Killer.
*WIZARD*
A- / Color Spray
B+ / Fire Shroud
B+ / Icy Rays
B / Shock Sphere
B- / Maze of Mirrors
Maze of Mirrors appears reasonable from a pure control standpoint, but doesn't kill minions or avoid allies and is only burst 1, so it feels like a lesser option here. Icy Rays is a versatile ranged option for okay damage with a decent side effect. Comparing to Eldritch Rain, a very similar spell, it does less damage but immobilizes and the target's can be anywhere within 10 of caster (so up to 20 apart) instead of having to be within 5 of each other. Shock Sphere is a nice big area to toss out early on to catch enemies before your allies are too close in their midst. Fire Shroud is a sizable close burst that targets enemies only, so that's quite good. Color Spray gets my nod for best option... close blast 5 is a decent size even if it's not great to be that close, but it's also radiant and can daze a large quantity of foes. Sounds good.
I was sorta asleep typing up this round, so I apologize if there are any blatant errors, ramblings, whatever.
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Cleric:
I know you really value attack bonuses, but in this case, I think Command is better than Blazing Beacon. It's exceedingly good in a solo fight. A 20% increase in hit chance means out of 5 attacks your allies generate, one that would have missed, may now hit. So that's essentially 1 additional hit. Giving them a free round of attacks without retaliation will net more hits than that, almost guaranteed.
Fighter:
I would value Sweeping Blow a bit higher than Rain of Blows, because like you mentioned it can mark a whole bunch of targets. Also its abilities are attached to a better weapon, not to mention it gives you a nice attack bonus. Dance of Steel is pants. May as well give it an F.
Paladin:
Arcing Smite does a good job of letting the Paladin play his Defender role, so I think it deserves a better grade. If Split the Sky is a C+ with the knockdown, I don't see why Staggering Smite is a B- without the knockdown. The extra damage on it is nice, but knockdown is much nicer, not to mention the former ability is vs Fortitude, whereas the latter is vs AC.
Ranger:
Dead on.
Rogue:
In the absence of an action point (which is half the encounters) I like Setup Strike better than Topple Over, since the combat advantage it grants me lasts longer. I might rank Topple Over a bit higher since it helps allies too, but not a whole grade higher. Trickster's Blade is also more interesting than you give it credit for, because you can make a ranged attack with it, and the AC bonus is against everyone. I think it's a very reasonable opening move with that crossbow when you have combat advantage for 4d6+dex damage (4d8+dex with 2 feats). That's better than a C- in my book.
Warlock:
Fiery Bolt deals oodles of damage (which fits the Warlock's job description), so I have a difficult time putting it lower than Otherwind Stride. I'd rate them about equal.
Warlord:
I only have one big disagreement here. Inspiring War Cry should be the top of the list. This attack ability as an encounter power is a rare gem. And since it's an Effect, it triggers independent of the result of your attack roll. Getting your Striker or Defender un-dazed before they act can be very important. Between Shake It Off and Inspiring War Cry, you can provide a healthy bit of relief to your party. Next best are Warlord's Strike and Steel Monsoon. I don't much like Hold the Line because it's very difficult to get your allies to stand still next to you.
Wizard:
If Otherwind Stride is a B-, why is Icy Rays C-? Immobilized is a fantastic condition to inflict on an enemy. And you get to inflict it upon two enemies. It's something you can use almost every encounter since it's ranged. I find Close Blasts like Color Spray are much harder to use.
I know you really value attack bonuses, but in this case, I think Command is better than Blazing Beacon. It's exceedingly good in a solo fight. A 20% increase in hit chance means out of 5 attacks your allies generate, one that would have missed, may now hit. So that's essentially 1 additional hit. Giving them a free round of attacks without retaliation will net more hits than that, almost guaranteed.
Fighter:
I would value Sweeping Blow a bit higher than Rain of Blows, because like you mentioned it can mark a whole bunch of targets. Also its abilities are attached to a better weapon, not to mention it gives you a nice attack bonus. Dance of Steel is pants. May as well give it an F.
Paladin:
Arcing Smite does a good job of letting the Paladin play his Defender role, so I think it deserves a better grade. If Split the Sky is a C+ with the knockdown, I don't see why Staggering Smite is a B- without the knockdown. The extra damage on it is nice, but knockdown is much nicer, not to mention the former ability is vs Fortitude, whereas the latter is vs AC.
Ranger:
Dead on.
Rogue:
In the absence of an action point (which is half the encounters) I like Setup Strike better than Topple Over, since the combat advantage it grants me lasts longer. I might rank Topple Over a bit higher since it helps allies too, but not a whole grade higher. Trickster's Blade is also more interesting than you give it credit for, because you can make a ranged attack with it, and the AC bonus is against everyone. I think it's a very reasonable opening move with that crossbow when you have combat advantage for 4d6+dex damage (4d8+dex with 2 feats). That's better than a C- in my book.
Warlock:
Fiery Bolt deals oodles of damage (which fits the Warlock's job description), so I have a difficult time putting it lower than Otherwind Stride. I'd rate them about equal.
Warlord:
I only have one big disagreement here. Inspiring War Cry should be the top of the list. This attack ability as an encounter power is a rare gem. And since it's an Effect, it triggers independent of the result of your attack roll. Getting your Striker or Defender un-dazed before they act can be very important. Between Shake It Off and Inspiring War Cry, you can provide a healthy bit of relief to your party. Next best are Warlord's Strike and Steel Monsoon. I don't much like Hold the Line because it's very difficult to get your allies to stand still next to you.
Wizard:
If Otherwind Stride is a B-, why is Icy Rays C-? Immobilized is a fantastic condition to inflict on an enemy. And you get to inflict it upon two enemies. It's something you can use almost every encounter since it's ranged. I find Close Blasts like Color Spray are much harder to use.
These are very useful threads keterys.
I agree (or close enough to agreeing) with most of your ratings.
However Fox's Cunning as a D seems quite low...
Yes it is conditional but:
a) with a two-weapon ranger those conditions are going to be met in almost any encounter that matters (and it means you get three attacks in a round while maintaining a little extra maneuverability that helps...)
b) with a bow ranger it acts as more of a way to get away from the close combat dudes when they close in with you. (and when it does trigger you will end up doing more damage on average in that turn than if you had taken ANY of the other level 1 ranger powers... since you have to include the damage from a Twin Strike in there).
Obviously it's not as good as Disruptive Strike, but I personally rate Disruptive Strike as A+. Note that half the reason both of these attacks are as good and this is partly because Rangers have such a good at will power.
Personally I would give it a B+... the other level 1 ranger powers would be around the same.
Cheers,
I agree (or close enough to agreeing) with most of your ratings.
However Fox's Cunning as a D seems quite low...
Yes it is conditional but:
a) with a two-weapon ranger those conditions are going to be met in almost any encounter that matters (and it means you get three attacks in a round while maintaining a little extra maneuverability that helps...)
b) with a bow ranger it acts as more of a way to get away from the close combat dudes when they close in with you. (and when it does trigger you will end up doing more damage on average in that turn than if you had taken ANY of the other level 1 ranger powers... since you have to include the damage from a Twin Strike in there).
Obviously it's not as good as Disruptive Strike, but I personally rate Disruptive Strike as A+. Note that half the reason both of these attacks are as good and this is partly because Rangers have such a good at will power.
Personally I would give it a B+... the other level 1 ranger powers would be around the same.
Cheers,
keterys
First Post
I really hate having to upgrade the +attack/-defense ones so much because of their effect on other powers, but it's a "potential" awesome - you can use it to upgrade your Thirsting Maw, Fireswarm, Confounding Swarm, etc. Just looking at Confounding Swarm alone, +4 to just that one character's attacks (and he could spend an action point) makes stunning far more likely and is a solid damage upgrade. Damage + Stun that is better than any other Encounter 3 power, without factoring in action points or other characters, or things like warlord's giving extra attacks.
I personally like Sweeping Blow better, but Rain of Blows is the highest damage output option available and what's wrong with flails?
Fair.
Hmm, that sounds like I made a mistake. Let me bring that up... Okay, Staggering is a Str-based, so its Wis squares could easily be 4 or 5 squares. It does +1W but AC instead of Fort. Though I'll note that Fort is not a whole lot better than AC, so maybe that's what I was thinking. Hmm, I think I should probably up Split the Sky a step - cause my original score was better for it.
Honestly, I don't like either... but most of Topple's upgrade is from the +4 or so to hit from Brutal Scoundrel. Especially for a rogue, actually hitting nets you another 2 to 3d8 damage. That said, I think I overvalued Topple and I'll adjust it lower. Would you argue I undervalued Setup as well?
Hmmhmm. Toss a dagger in, gain the bonus, maneuver somewhere less safe... okay, I was underestimating that.
I had rated them pretty close, but changed my mind after seeing both in use a bit more. Otherwind Stride immobilizes a creature then teleports you _far_ away, and you can even take a move afterwards. That's a great synergy of effects... but the main reason stride is rated so highly, it's just a big teleport. It's pretty comparable to the level 6 Wizard daily utility, Dimension Door. Except it's every 5 minutes.
I like saves as much as the next guy, but I was having trouble comparing to other powers - like Shake it Off, but even like Sacred Flame, an at-will. You only need to give people saves so often at the level range this will come up and it's not a save with any kind of bonus. Mostly I just figured that a level 3 attack power that gave a save should do slightly more, like go against another defense, give a Cha bonus to it if you're an inspiring warlord, give an option for temp instead of a save, etc. I'm willing to upgrade it if others agree, though. It's certainly solid.
A-, B-... and it's all about that teleport. Immobilized is decent, but it doesn't necessarily bother a ranged opponent (unless it allows melee to get up to them) or a melee opponent (unless his attacks can't reach) so I'd certainly rate it lower than daze. While close spells are tougher to use, they also don't provoke, so that counterbalances to a certain extent. You can, for instance, Color Spray then move away without being OA-ed. I wouldn't want only close spells, but having a selection is good. I do like Icy Rays a lot - that's why I set it to B-. How powerful is the custom targetting? Would it make sense to upgrade both Icy Rays and Eldritch Rain?
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