Grading Encounter Attack Powers

[Korror]

Initial stab in the dark - hopefully folks can help refine things.

*CLERIC*
A / Blazing Beacon
B+ / Command
C+ / Daunting Light
B- / Split the Sky

Daunting Light does solid damage, radiant, over adequate range. The combat advantage is useful, but not really powerful. Split the Sky looks really nice, until you realize the enemy is just going to stand and charge. I've seen it use a couple times and that's happened every time. Command lets you daze and choose between prone or slid a fair ways, which is a very powerful controlling combo. No damage, though. Blazing Beacon provides a sizable +4 bonus to all ranged attacks against a target for a turn, which can be used for many attacks in a round by most members of the party, including action points, dailies, etc, so gets to be top of the pile.

Just thought I'd comment on the Cleric powers as well.

1) Blazing Beacon A (or C+ depending on the group)

Blazing Beacon seems one of those powers which really depends on your group composition. If you're ever in a party with 2+ ranged attackers then it shines but this does not seem to be a common occurrence at least from the games I've seen. If you only have a wizard, it seems a waste compared to some of the other options.

2) Command A

It's really really good and would be A+ if it did any damage. Nothing much to say here. Dazed + prone means they're out of the fight for a round and the ability to slide is quite useful.

3) Daunting Light B-

It does decent damage at least and the combat advantage is sometimes helpful. A solid power though not as nifty as Command.

4) Split the Sky B-

This is only slightly better than Righteous Brand but there are some tricks you can pull off with it. If the target is dazed then Split the Sky will take them out of combat for sometime which means it combos nicely with Wrathful Thunder. If hit and then move towards them 1 square, they'll be unable to charge after standing up. My experience with a melee cleric is limited so I'm not sure how often useful situtation like this occur so the B- is tentative.

 

[keterys]

Like what though? You only switch places so you can't use it to push them into something nasty

You can if you use some other attack to set it up, where that can be an area effect, zone, conjuration, tide of iron off of something, or whatever. And the amount you shift with it is on par or greater than Tumble.

but I see its use being more to slingshot yourself behind enemy ranks than to set up the monsters for anything.

Oh totally - I'm just pointing out that it's solid due to targetting Will for solid damage before the special effect, and that special effect is actually quite versatile and effective. Some soldier's guarding a doorway and an artillery is bombing you past it? Etc. If it didn't target Will, of course, it would rate lower.

Why not keep both?

The point is that I'm not going to score it as effectively better than a level 1 power that it's worse than You can certainly have both if you don't have party members to flank with often... but it just makes it an adequate option rather than exceptional.

+4 hit bonus means a starting STR of at least 16 right? I can't see that being practical as that would preclude a starting 18 DEX. Maybe a dragonborn rogue could start with 16 STR but it seems excessive for rogues who really want their primary stat as high as possible.

Depends on if they use the standard array and if they are a race with a Str bonus. I was assuming point buy, but if you use a standard array and aren't a Str race, then you could make the example 14th. Or just make it +3 and it would be slightly under 3W instead of slightly over.

Also once you're at the point where +hit is so valuable, you might be better off with Bait and Switch since most creature's will defense is 2-4 lower than their AC.

Well, yes, that is one reason why I'm arguing for the vs. Will in a couple powers as being quite strong.

 

[Goumindong]

We talked earlier about weakening. It looks like weakening is one of those special snowflake powers similar to how magic missile synergies well with warlord powers that grant attacks.

Well, Tactical Warlords have another power, an encounter power that gives the entire party a bonus equal to his intelligence modifier to hit against any enemy weakened... until the end of the encounter.

I.E. If you have a Tactical Warlord who picks this up all your weakening powers give your friends +4 (though +8) to attack against the enemy you weaken in each and every encounter you fight through.

Suddenly Weaken doesn't seem so bad.

 

[LittleElvis]

Anyone else want to weigh in on this? Basically, I completely agree that the bloodied requirement is a huge penalty on the healing effect, but I'd also say that healing 8 is better than temporary hp 8, and that most importantly having a 75% chance to hit against Will compared to a 60% chance against AC is a huge deal since it does nothing at all if it misses.

So something like, let's say you get 24 temp hp out of Righteous 60% of the time = 14.4 temp and heal 12 hp out of Invigorating 75% of the time, so 9 healed... so 5.4 temp vs. 25% more damage and the comfort of more reliable results.

I would say you'd get an average of at least 28 temp hp from Righteous (7 temp hp per each to four people in the party; in some cases it could be 8 temp hp to five or six characters). And an average of about 8 hp healed from Invigorating.

To personally benefit from Invigorating, you have to first be bloodied. In a fair number of combats, you will never start your turn bloodied (because you will get bloodied on an enemy's turn, if at all, and then get healed by your leader before your turn). And, when you finally are bloodied, there's a real good chance that no one else around you is going to be bloodied right then. So the average hp healed has to factor in that you may never even get a chance to use it, or not be able to use it on yourself.

Even if your ally is bloodied and you're not (you can still use it to heal the ally or allies), healing 7 hp or gaining 7 temp hp is pretty much the same thing.

Whereas, you and your party can always benefit from temp hp. Unless it's at the end of the combat, I guess, but if you have Righteous you're always going to want to use that early on in the combat to get the benefits of temp hp and to use it while everyone is within 5 squares of you (ideally).

In the heat of combat, temp hp are just as valuable as healed hp. True, healed hp helps you save healing surges, but if survival during an encounter is the issue, there is no practical difference. And actually a Dragonborn would generally rather be bloodied, but with temp hp (+1 to hit) than not bloodied, assuming the same number of total hp (actual + temp)--unless the opponent gains a big advantage against you when you're bloodied.

While you're going to land Invigorating more often (roughly +15% more), you're going to gain so many more total (temp) hp from Righteous in the vast majority of cases, and this can also help your party save many healing surges. I think Righteous is far better.

 

[LittleElvis]

Another benefit of Righteous is that since all you need to do is hit, you may as well try to trigger its hit effect early in the combat by targeting the weakest opposing AC you can. If you do that, the difference of hitting AC vs Reflex is less significant. Just whomp the weakest enemy you can, and it's a free temporary hp buffet to everyone within 5 squares. Very nice.

 

[keterys]

Upgraded righteous and command, downgraded shock sphere. Added a disclaimer to Blazing Beacon so it bothers people less.

 

[LittleElvis]

Upgraded righteous and command, downgraded shock sphere. Added a disclaimer to Blazing Beacon so it bothers people less.

Getting there

Righteous Smite is just filthy, sick, good. Let's you deal 2[w] and potentially save your party 4-6 healing surges? Per encounter? Starting everyone in your party off with an extra 7 or 8 temp hp is ridiculous at third level.

It really should be a Daily Power IMO. Heck of a lot better than "Paladin's Judgment," I'd say, and that's a Daily. I wouldn't give it anything less than an A, but that's just me.

 

[LittleElvis]

And another thing. The temp hp are much better than healed hp there. If it was just healing, then you could only benefit the party members who were already wounded. Giving temporary hp allows you to help anyone, anytime.

Prevention > Cure

 

[Mengu]

Righteous Smite is just filthy, sick, good. <snip>I wouldn't give it anything less than an A, but that's just me.

I concur. Though it's hard to compare a healing power to others, I think it's better than Command, which gets an A-. It's more potential healing than Warlord's Strike does for damage, and healing is supposed to be a more valuable commodity than damage.

 

[Fedifensor]

Are we ready to move on to the Level 7 powers?