Grading Encounter Attack Powers
- Thread starter keterys
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keterys
First Post
Encounter 7 Reasoning
A decent subset of these powers did not appear more powerful than level 1 or 3 powers, at first glance. Some certainly are, however, so there's a stronger grading disparity perhaps. That said, I tried not to let my disappointment cloud my scoring, but I have some concerns so... show me wrong. Lots. The at-wills had a lot more contention and debate to 'em
*CLERIC*
C / Awe Strike
C / Break the Spirit
B+ / Searing Light
A- / Strengthen the Faithful
Awe Strike is decent in that it targets Will and immobilizes for a round, but it only does 1W damage and immobilize on a melee attack won't generally result in a lack of action or OA, just inconvenience in targetting or moving.
Break the Spirit would be a bit better if there wasn't the Wis/Cha MAD to consider, but it's decent radiant damage and a penalty to attacks at least.
Searing Light is a little less damage than Break the Spirit, but blind is an immensely better effect.
Strengthen the Faithful is a fantastic power in a melee heavy group or when rushing to the aid of a ranged character in melee. That could easily trigger 3 healing surges with both Wis and Cha added for the cleric.
*FIGHTER*
A- / Come and Get It
B- / Griffon's Wrath
C- / Iron Bulwark
D+ / Reckless Strike
C- / Sudden Surge
Come and Get It is forced movement without an attack, allows the fighter to mark and probably get a challenge attack in, groups enemies up for the resulting attack. Just real nice.
Griffon's Wrath sets up a round's worth of AC attacks against the enemy nicely.
Iron Bulwark is best used when mobbed by a group of enemies, but frankly an Encounter 7 should really start looking a lot more solid than the At-Will Priest's Shield by now.
Reckless Strike is decent damage, but taking a penalty to hit negates much of the point and it has nothing special to it otherwise.
Sudden Surge is probably intended for maybe spear toting Eladrin warriors and there is some potential benefit there, but it's fairly disappointing. Compare to Evasive Strike or Cut and Run for a more amusing comparison.
*PALADIN*
C+ / Beckon Foe
C+ / Benign Transposition
B+ / Divine Reverence
C / Thunder Smite
Beckon Foe I actually like quite a bit - solid damage, pulling a creature to the paladin to deal with - but its range is lackluster and the Cha/Wis MAD hurts its pulling potential some (not that it ever needs more than 4)
Benign Transposition suffers from a severe MAD-induced short range, but is still a pretty nifty and useful effect attached with an okay attack attached.
Divine Reverence is a close burst daze. If only it were a 'Weapon' attack it'd be a solid A. Definitely the winner of the paladin powers for me at this level, though.
Thunder Smite Solid damage, prone isn't bad - this would have been a solid level 3 power. Maybe there's something special you can do with the crit to make this a bit cooler though?
*RANGER*
B+ / Claws of the Griffon
B- / Hawk's Talon
B- / Spikes of the Manticore
A- / Sweeping Whirlwind
Claws of the Griffon is pretty much Two-Fanged Strike but slightly more consistent damage. Still quite solid for damage.
Hawk's Talon is potentially a huge bonus to attack if you factor in cover and concealment. It's not exciting, but it's solid.
Spikes of the Manticore is like a lesser Split the Tree. Solid performer.
Sweeping Whirlwind is the non-boring Ranger power of the level and it's actually quite impressive. Sweep around and push several squares and knock prone? That's nice and should actually be useful all the way through to 23 when you replace level 7 encounter powers.
*ROGUE*
B- / Cloud of Steel
A / Imperiling Strike
C+ / Rogue's Luck
B+ / Sand in the Eyes
Cloud of Steel is a good-sized close blast that targets enemies only. Damage isn't high, but honestly it doesn't need to be.
Imperiling Strike is a massive power play. Vs Fortitude isn't a huge bonus, but it's a nice option for mixing things up, and penalty to AC and Reflex equal to Str modifier will set up many followup attacks, especially at high paragon or low epic.
Rogue's Luck is a cute mechanic that does make it tremendously likely that you'll hit, but its damage will never be impressive and it carries no other special effect.
Sand in the Eyes targets Reflex and blinds for a round. Slightly low damage, but great power.
*WARLOCK*
B- / Howl of Doom
B- / Infernal Moon Curse
A- / Mire the Mind
B- / Sign of Ill Omen
Howl of Doom is sorta like Thunderwave's big brother. Seems decent.
Infernal Moon Curse is solid damage and its immobilize seems more useful than, say, Awe Strike's, for example.
Mire the Mind is low damage, but it effectively blinds the target (which is great stuff) and gives a sizable bonus to Stealth, presumably resulting in multiple more combat advantage opportunities.
Sign of Ill Omen is slightly low damage, but it completely screws the target's next attack.
*WARLORD*
B+ / Lion's Roar
A- / Sunder Armor
B+ / Surprise Attack
B- / Surround Foe
Lion's Roar gets marked up a bit purely because it's a guaranteed healing surge. In the hands of an inspiring warlord I suspect it's pretty much equivalent to the Daily 1 Paladin's Blessing.
Sunder Armor has nice synergy with 'on crit' abilities and feats and is marked up almost purely on the assumption that action points and/or dailies and such are magnified by this power.
Surprise Attack is really solid damage, particularly when grouped with a rogue or someone who does more damage than the warlord.
Surround Foe gets points for its set up ability, but honestly I think it's best at saving someone cornered.
*WIZARD*
B / Fire Burst
B / Lightning Bolt
B- / Spectral Ram
A- / Winter's Wrath
Fire Burst is very solid range and area, good damage, but no special effects. Almost like there's a steady progression of Scorching Burst -> Shock Sphere -> Here.
Lightning Bolt I love the versatile attack mechanism. It suffers primarily from low damage, but this is a nice little low level chain lightning effect.
Spectral Ram is solid damage with the push and knocks prone. On that note, I wonder if the better trick with push and knocks prone might be to push 1 - if you do, the target can't charge you. The target can crawl and attack, but it provokes and sets up combat advantage.
Winter's Wrath is a great area spell. Solid size and great damage, some of it automatic, and the party rogue can even step through it to gain Stealth.
A decent subset of these powers did not appear more powerful than level 1 or 3 powers, at first glance. Some certainly are, however, so there's a stronger grading disparity perhaps. That said, I tried not to let my disappointment cloud my scoring, but I have some concerns so... show me wrong. Lots. The at-wills had a lot more contention and debate to 'em
*CLERIC*
C / Awe Strike
C / Break the Spirit
B+ / Searing Light
A- / Strengthen the Faithful
Awe Strike is decent in that it targets Will and immobilizes for a round, but it only does 1W damage and immobilize on a melee attack won't generally result in a lack of action or OA, just inconvenience in targetting or moving.
Break the Spirit would be a bit better if there wasn't the Wis/Cha MAD to consider, but it's decent radiant damage and a penalty to attacks at least.
Searing Light is a little less damage than Break the Spirit, but blind is an immensely better effect.
Strengthen the Faithful is a fantastic power in a melee heavy group or when rushing to the aid of a ranged character in melee. That could easily trigger 3 healing surges with both Wis and Cha added for the cleric.
*FIGHTER*
A- / Come and Get It
B- / Griffon's Wrath
C- / Iron Bulwark
D+ / Reckless Strike
C- / Sudden Surge
Come and Get It is forced movement without an attack, allows the fighter to mark and probably get a challenge attack in, groups enemies up for the resulting attack. Just real nice.
Griffon's Wrath sets up a round's worth of AC attacks against the enemy nicely.
Iron Bulwark is best used when mobbed by a group of enemies, but frankly an Encounter 7 should really start looking a lot more solid than the At-Will Priest's Shield by now.
Reckless Strike is decent damage, but taking a penalty to hit negates much of the point and it has nothing special to it otherwise.
Sudden Surge is probably intended for maybe spear toting Eladrin warriors and there is some potential benefit there, but it's fairly disappointing. Compare to Evasive Strike or Cut and Run for a more amusing comparison.
*PALADIN*
C+ / Beckon Foe
C+ / Benign Transposition
B+ / Divine Reverence
C / Thunder Smite
Beckon Foe I actually like quite a bit - solid damage, pulling a creature to the paladin to deal with - but its range is lackluster and the Cha/Wis MAD hurts its pulling potential some (not that it ever needs more than 4)
Benign Transposition suffers from a severe MAD-induced short range, but is still a pretty nifty and useful effect attached with an okay attack attached.
Divine Reverence is a close burst daze. If only it were a 'Weapon' attack it'd be a solid A. Definitely the winner of the paladin powers for me at this level, though.
Thunder Smite Solid damage, prone isn't bad - this would have been a solid level 3 power. Maybe there's something special you can do with the crit to make this a bit cooler though?
*RANGER*
B+ / Claws of the Griffon
B- / Hawk's Talon
B- / Spikes of the Manticore
A- / Sweeping Whirlwind
Claws of the Griffon is pretty much Two-Fanged Strike but slightly more consistent damage. Still quite solid for damage.
Hawk's Talon is potentially a huge bonus to attack if you factor in cover and concealment. It's not exciting, but it's solid.
Spikes of the Manticore is like a lesser Split the Tree. Solid performer.
Sweeping Whirlwind is the non-boring Ranger power of the level and it's actually quite impressive. Sweep around and push several squares and knock prone? That's nice and should actually be useful all the way through to 23 when you replace level 7 encounter powers.
*ROGUE*
B- / Cloud of Steel
A / Imperiling Strike
C+ / Rogue's Luck
B+ / Sand in the Eyes
Cloud of Steel is a good-sized close blast that targets enemies only. Damage isn't high, but honestly it doesn't need to be.
Imperiling Strike is a massive power play. Vs Fortitude isn't a huge bonus, but it's a nice option for mixing things up, and penalty to AC and Reflex equal to Str modifier will set up many followup attacks, especially at high paragon or low epic.
Rogue's Luck is a cute mechanic that does make it tremendously likely that you'll hit, but its damage will never be impressive and it carries no other special effect.
Sand in the Eyes targets Reflex and blinds for a round. Slightly low damage, but great power.
*WARLOCK*
B- / Howl of Doom
B- / Infernal Moon Curse
A- / Mire the Mind
B- / Sign of Ill Omen
Howl of Doom is sorta like Thunderwave's big brother. Seems decent.
Infernal Moon Curse is solid damage and its immobilize seems more useful than, say, Awe Strike's, for example.
Mire the Mind is low damage, but it effectively blinds the target (which is great stuff) and gives a sizable bonus to Stealth, presumably resulting in multiple more combat advantage opportunities.
Sign of Ill Omen is slightly low damage, but it completely screws the target's next attack.
*WARLORD*
B+ / Lion's Roar
A- / Sunder Armor
B+ / Surprise Attack
B- / Surround Foe
Lion's Roar gets marked up a bit purely because it's a guaranteed healing surge. In the hands of an inspiring warlord I suspect it's pretty much equivalent to the Daily 1 Paladin's Blessing.
Sunder Armor has nice synergy with 'on crit' abilities and feats and is marked up almost purely on the assumption that action points and/or dailies and such are magnified by this power.
Surprise Attack is really solid damage, particularly when grouped with a rogue or someone who does more damage than the warlord.
Surround Foe gets points for its set up ability, but honestly I think it's best at saving someone cornered.
*WIZARD*
B / Fire Burst
B / Lightning Bolt
B- / Spectral Ram
A- / Winter's Wrath
Fire Burst is very solid range and area, good damage, but no special effects. Almost like there's a steady progression of Scorching Burst -> Shock Sphere -> Here.
Lightning Bolt I love the versatile attack mechanism. It suffers primarily from low damage, but this is a nice little low level chain lightning effect.
Spectral Ram is solid damage with the push and knocks prone. On that note, I wonder if the better trick with push and knocks prone might be to push 1 - if you do, the target can't charge you. The target can crawl and attack, but it provokes and sets up combat advantage.
Winter's Wrath is a great area spell. Solid size and great damage, some of it automatic, and the party rogue can even step through it to gain Stealth.
I wonder if one also should include a calculus of fight volatility. What I mean is: Invigorating Smite can turn a bad situation around, but Righteous Smite can keep a bad situation from developing. Here's why it matters.
You have a 75% to hit Will with Invigorating, but there are more dire consequences if you fail because the ability is best used as an attempt to turn a bad situation around. You can unload Righteous's 60% at the beginning of every encounter, but it's not the end of the world if it doesn't connect. The party has time to recover. Righteous is thus less dangerous to use--and if successful can turn a difficult encounter to an easy one. Invigorating hits more often, but *is more dangerous to use.* That is, missing the Invigorating will have a graver impact on the party's survivability, because you will have held the power until a moment of crisis. Righteous on the other hand prevents fights from becoming volatile--everyone has a little bit of extra breathing space from the beginning of the encounter.
best,
Carpe
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A decent subset of these powers did not appear more powerful than level 1 or 3 powers, at first glance. Some certainly are, however, so there's a stronger grading disparity perhaps. That said, I tried not to let my disappointment cloud my scoring, but I have some concerns so... show me wrong. Lots. The at-wills had a lot more contention and debate to 'em
I don't think the encounter powers in the same tier are meant to be better over the lower level ones. They give you more options but if they were strictly better than you'd always use your powers in descending order of their level which would be not very interesting. In my opinion, each power should be only be compared against the other ones for their level (see my liking for setup strike).
I'll give my opinions as soon as I get off of work and have access to the book again though I doubt any discuss will be as controversial as the debate over the wizards at-will powers. (Cloud of Daggers is a horrible choice
)
keterys
First Post
The average is definitely moving up, just not all the powers.
For level 7's. No comment means I agree.
Fighter:
Sudden Surge is an F as far as I'm concerned. I'd take Reckless Strike before Sudden Surge, at least I can coup de grace something with it when needed.
Ranger:
I like Claws of the Griffon a little better than Sweeping Whirlwind. This again may have something to do with my expectations of what a striker needs to be doing. The potential focused damage from Claws of the Griffon is quite impressive for an encounter power. And all you need for reliability is a bonus against a single opponent, which is not hard to obtain.
Rogue:
Not too surprisingly, I like Rogue's Luck a bit better than a C+. Missing a 1d4 damage doesn't concern me so much, when I can hit with such reliability and get in my extra 2d6 or 2d8 damage. I would rate all the Rogue powers just about equal. I know why Imperiling Strike is an A, but I don't think it's as critical a power for the rogue. I'd give B+'s to Imperiling Strike, Rogue's Luck, and Sand in the Eyes. B or B- seems fine for Cloud of Steel.
Fighter:
Sudden Surge is an F as far as I'm concerned. I'd take Reckless Strike before Sudden Surge, at least I can coup de grace something with it when needed.
Ranger:
I like Claws of the Griffon a little better than Sweeping Whirlwind. This again may have something to do with my expectations of what a striker needs to be doing. The potential focused damage from Claws of the Griffon is quite impressive for an encounter power. And all you need for reliability is a bonus against a single opponent, which is not hard to obtain.
Rogue:
Not too surprisingly, I like Rogue's Luck a bit better than a C+. Missing a 1d4 damage doesn't concern me so much, when I can hit with such reliability and get in my extra 2d6 or 2d8 damage. I would rate all the Rogue powers just about equal. I know why Imperiling Strike is an A, but I don't think it's as critical a power for the rogue. I'd give B+'s to Imperiling Strike, Rogue's Luck, and Sand in the Eyes. B or B- seems fine for Cloud of Steel.
keterys
First Post
While I obviously agree that Sudden Surge is pretty crappy, a Dex fighter (one working towards that Dex 19 feat for epic, for instance) could get real mileage (har har) out of it. So much in the same way that Deft Strike is potentially nice, it gives the fighter more options.
I just can't see them being taken over the other way cooler fighter powers at that level
I felt a bit iffy on the Rogue's Luck score - maybe I'll have time to do a more rigorous analysis on it this weekend.
Claws of the Griffin is way better single target damage, but Sweeping Whirlwind is also a get out of jail free card for a ranger who gets in trouble and gets mobbed. Or a crazy one who charges in to set up attacks on prone people. It has good synergy with hazards, zones, walls, and such.
I just can't see them being taken over the other way cooler fighter powers at that level
I felt a bit iffy on the Rogue's Luck score - maybe I'll have time to do a more rigorous analysis on it this weekend.
Claws of the Griffin is way better single target damage, but Sweeping Whirlwind is also a get out of jail free card for a ranger who gets in trouble and gets mobbed. Or a crazy one who charges in to set up attacks on prone people. It has good synergy with hazards, zones, walls, and such.
By my calculations. Rogues's luck does an average of 18.3375 damage assuming 50% chance to hit and a d8 weapon/d8 SA/weapon focus and a +3 CHR bonus. If we assume a d4 weapon then it does an average of 15.6875. A straight 2W + dex Miss: half damage does an average of 18 damage in the first case and 15 in the second case. Thus rogues luck is just a little bit better than 2W + dex Miss:Half damage. This doesn't seem very exciting to me and thus I think it deserves a C.
I'd also rate Sand in the Eyes and Imperiling Strike as equals. Imperiling strike gives you and your party around +3 to hit which is very good while Sand in their Eyes gives the opponent -5 to hit and grants CA which is +2 for everyone though it won't stack if you already have CA. Which is better probably depends on whether your party members haven't used their dailies and if they are able to gain CA through normal means.
One thing that I think you need to keep in mind is that any cleric who takes Break the Spirit or any other wisdom based power isn't going have to worry about Wis/Cha MAD. For a devoted cleric, Str doesn't offer much beyond the fort defense and it's perfectly possible for him to have a +4 Cha bonus by level 11.
This makes Break the Spirit slightly better as it will be more likely to hit as it targets Will and the penalty is only 1 less than Searing Light. I'd say it rates a C+ or maybe even a B- at most. I agree that Searing Light is better in nearly all circumstances though. I have no disagreements with you on Awestrike andStrengthen the Faithful. Awe strike is more appropriately named awful strike and strength the faithful is excatly the kind of power that the meele cleric should be using.
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