Grapple: How do you dogpile something?

[Aluvial]

I'm wondering how to "dog-pile" a bunch of small somethings in a way that would drag down a larger opponent...

Essentially, kobolds vs. PCs.

I see that Aid Another might help, but what about the entire process? Is there a way to help in the attack role to grab, AND the grapple check, or can others only Aid in one way?

Is there a way within the grapple rules to simulate a dog-pile?

Aluvial

 

[blargney the second]

If you can trip the victim first, they're at -4 on attack rolls (and consequently grapples). A sorcerer with ray of enfeeblement also goes a long way to helping things out.

 

[Aluvial]

How do you use Aid Another, in the most effective way, to grapple?

 

[Humanaut]

Mob Template the Kobolds, then grapple! I'm w/o books, that's DMG2 i think???

have fun!
-b

 

[mvincent]

How do you use Aid Another, in the most effective way, to grapple?

Unless the opponent has a high grapple roll, each of the kobolds are likely better off making individual rolls... thanks to the shallow bell curve of two d20 rolls, the standard deviation is fairly high, meaning that at least one will do well. Also, once one starts the grapple, the rest of them can join more easily.

If the opponent does have a high grapple roll, I would likely have half of the kobolds attempt to start a grapple, and the other half ready actions to aid the grapple check of the first kobold that makes his touch attack. Once they have all joined the grapple, only one kobold would roll the grapple while the rest of them aid him.

 

[Aluvial]

Mob Template the Kobolds, then grapple! I'm w/o books, that's DMG2 i think???

have fun!
-b

A mob of Small creatures is 30 HD, Gargantuan, and is a +12 to Grapple +/- Str and has something called Expert Grapple, which just means it can attack outside targets and grapple at the same time (Normal incurs a -20 penalty).

A regular group of Kobolds can pile 8 on a single target.... BUT

How do I get that to happen by the rules?

I assume, that I can get 8 small kobolds around one target... Then, 2 try to grapple... One AoO on one, likely takes that one out, the other gets to Touch for free. Assuming that you can touch, that leaves 6 others to Aid Another in the Grapple check, essentially a Dog-Pile... They need to hit DC 10, and then would add +2 to the Grapple of the one who made the Touch.

Does this sound right? If so, then I would have 7 Kobolds Grappling. The next turn, I could attempt to Pin, with one making the check, and the other 6 (+1 from the outside joining) using Aid Another again....

Sound reasonable?

Aluvial

 

[mvincent]

Does this sound right?

So far, yes

If so, then I would have 7 Kobolds Grappling.

Well, in this scenario only one kobold is considered grappling. The non-grappling ones can still aid in grapple checks (even to pin), but they are not technically grappling the opponent themselves, so the opponent would only have to break the hold of the first kobold in order to no longer be considered grappling.

The next turn, I could attempt to Pin, with one making the check, and the other 6 (+1 from the outside joining) using Aid Another again...

Yes, that would be an option.

 

[Folly]

I do not believe you can use aid another for grapple checks since aid another specifics states it only applies to ac or hit. mvincent is right though, because the high variance of the d20 one of them should succeed in grappling the target. If you continue this eventually all of them will succeed and the target will have to break all of them to get out of the grapple. This also assumes the ones doing the grapple are not extraordinarily out match (since bab is a factor)

 

[mvincent]

I do not believe you can use aid another for grapple checks since aid another specifics states it only applies to ac or hit.

The rules allow for it to aid attack rolls and skill checks, but most interpret that to include things like grapple checks and ability checks (like strength rolls*... which is indeed an expectation of the rules). The rules aren't perfectly written, but we have some solid precedence here for RAI.

*Example from the rules:
"It takes a DC 15 Strength check to winch the throwing arm down; most catapults have wheels to allow up to two crew members to use the aid another action, assisting the main winch operator"