Grapple: LIVING SHIELD [mearls]

[JohnSnow]

So, instead of making rules bloat, you make house rules bloat? I'm not sure that's really a good design goal. If there's no logical reason why a player shouldn't be able to do it, then it's really stupid to leave it out, because within moments of the D&D4E being played, a player is going to want to do it, and we're all going to have to make up our own rules for it.

I imagine we're much more likely to get general guidelines similar to, but probably with more comprehensive guidelines than, the rules for Stunts that Mike Mearls included in Iron Heroes.

Rather than separately covering "overturn a table," "swing on a chandelier," "throw dust in the eyes," "choke," "switch position," or the like, I expect we'll instead get guidelines for how to adjudicate it when players want to try "attack stunts," "defense stunts," and "movement stunts."

And to keep the DM from having to decide what kind of "stunts" the monsters use, some of them instead have those stunts laid out as "special abilities." So while anyone can "strangle" someone, the DM doesn't want every monster to use the same tactic. And DMs don't always want to be creative in selecting the stunts a monster tries to use.

By contrast, players generally love picking which stunts they want to try in a given fight.

I don't honestly know, but I suspect this is how it works.

 

[xechnao]

wrong thread

 

[DandD]

Yes, I really hope that the 4th edition rules-set won't become a 'make-up-your-own-rules'-set too much.

After all, we're supposed to pay for the rules that the WotC-guys branded out, because they devised new playable rules that we can use straight ahead, without having to tinker with them for ourselves. That's why there's an edition change, after all, right?

 

[Warbringer]

Sure, there is a cost, but it's not like 6 variants of one monster take as much space as 6 completely distinct monsters. You save a lot of space on Description and Ecology text blocks, and on illustrations.

Actually, my guess is it'll be close. I think will get images on all, but good point on the description an ecology

 

[The Little Raven]

Yes, I really hope that the 4th edition rules-set won't become a 'make-up-your-own-rules'-set too much.

After all, we're supposed to pay for the rules that the WotC-guys branded out, because they devised new playable rules that we can use straight ahead, without having to tinker with them for ourselves. That's why there's an edition change, after all, right?

It's impossible for a set of rules to cover all potential situations someone might come up with. For example, one DM might want a baking contests between PCs and rivals, but the game doesn't give rules for baking a cake (since it's pretty lame), so if you want rules for that, you'll have to come up with them.

 

[DandD]

Nah, I wig it with a simple backing-skill-test, and whoever rolls higher wins.

If somebody else can even provide better rules, and offers them to me for money, I really darn hope they're good.

I won't pay for suggesting how to make rules myself. All those D&D 4th edition rules-book should exactly be that: Rule-books.

If Mearls and co. can design very good rules (at least for me) and want money for it, I'll give it to them.

If not, well, they might convince others. I have no problems with that.

 

[Scribble]

Nah, I wig it with a simple backing-skill-test, and whoever rolls higher wins.

If somebody else can even provide better rules, and offers them to me for money, I really darn hope they're good.

I won't pay for suggesting how to make rules myself. All those D&D 4th edition rules-book should exactly be that: Rule-books.

If Mearls and co. can design very good rules (at least for me) and want money for it, I'll give it to them.

If not, well, they might convince others. I have no problems with that.

Well there's a bit of a difference between truly "winging it" and something like the stunts and stuff in the Book of Iron Might (BOIM.)

In earlier editions, winging it truly WAS winging it. Uhhh your fighter wants to climb that wall? hrmm... I gues make a dex check or something. (***WARNING EXAGGERATED***)

In something like BOIM, it's more like a slightly more complicated version of selecting a DC.
The basics are there, you're just deciding how hard it is, and what drawbacks might happen if any.

 

[DandD]

Well, we do have rules for climbing, and set DCs, consequences what might happen and other stuff. They're not spectacular, but D&D isn't a game focused on climbing either, I think.
I'm okay with having generalist rules for some situation, instead of overly-specialised things. And the fewer rolls there are made, the better it is.
Well, unless they found out some kind of genius D20-application. As long as it's not me who has to create stuff like that...

 

[AZRogue]

I imagine we're much more likely to get general guidelines similar to, but probably with more comprehensive guidelines than, the rules for Stunts that Mike Mearls included in Iron Heroes.

Rather than separately covering "overturn a table," "swing on a chandelier," "throw dust in the eyes," "choke," "switch position," or the like, I expect we'll instead get guidelines for how to adjudicate it when players want to try "attack stunts," "defense stunts," and "movement stunts."

And to keep the DM from having to decide what kind of "stunts" the monsters use, some of them instead have those stunts laid out as "special abilities." So while anyone can "strangle" someone, the DM doesn't want every monster to use the same tactic. And DMs don't always want to be creative in selecting the stunts a monster tries to use.

By contrast, players generally love picking which stunts they want to try in a given fight.

I don't honestly know, but I suspect this is how it works.

This wouldn't be bad, if enough time was spent on it so that two different DMs could both reasonably interpret a PC Stunt the same way. Too vague wouldn't be very helpful, but given a bit of space in the DMG and it should (I hope) be fairly easy to figure out what to do, from a default point of view, in any given situation.

Monster abilities that don't require special body parts, special size, special magical power, or special tools should be usable by a PC either as a Stunt (if they are used in the game) or as a maneuver/ability that can be dragged and dropped onto a character sheet in place of another ability for a character of similar level.