D&D 5E Grapple prone enemy and fly up

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
Prone is "countered by standing up." Being picked up by a flying creature has a similar removal-from-ground effect as standing up.

I would do this because:
What do you do when someone targets the grappled flying prone person with a ranged attack?
Nothing. Except make sure the grappled person "doesn't benefit from any bonus to its speed."

Prone would mean disadvantage, but in this case I don't see it applying.
Keeping prone v the grappler keeps that beneficial situation for the grappled.
"Grappled" didn't read as very beneficial to me. It just means you're not going anywhere.

Really, flying creatures don't grapple. Go ahead and add another condition to the 5e quagmire, "snatched," because "grappled" implies you're on the ground with zero speed. Unlike "flying."
 

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Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
I‘d say the target goes from being prone to being grappled, then as soon as you let go they are prone again
 

Dross

Explorer
Prone is "countered by standing up." Being picked up by a flying creature has a similar removal-from-ground effect as standing up.


Nothing. Except make sure the grappled person "doesn't benefit from any bonus to its speed."


"Grappled" didn't read as very beneficial to me. It just means you're not going anywhere.

Really, flying creatures don't grapple. Go ahead and add another condition to the 5e quagmire, "snatched," because "grappled" implies you're on the ground with zero speed. Unlike "flying."

If you are grappled means no speed for you, but the grappler can move you, such as flying upwards.
You might be right grappling not being common for flying creatures, but there are lots of ways to get to fly so I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make.
And it was an answer to the question asked. :)
I disagree that grappled implies on the ground with zero speed. Grapped is being held. Remember if someone moves the grappled out of the grappler's reach they are free with no additional penalty, like prone. This at least implies you are treated to be in the same state post grapple as pre grapple. Standing if standing, prone if prone.
 


the Jester

Legend
Prone is "countered by standing up." Being picked up by a flying creature has a similar removal-from-ground effect as standing up.
Being picked up is not the same as standing up. "Removal-from-ground" is not what ends the prone condition; standing up- getting back on one's proper standing limbs- is.

Really, flying creatures don't grapple. Go ahead and add another condition to the 5e quagmire, "snatched," because "grappled" implies you're on the ground with zero speed. Unlike "flying."
You can move someone that you have grappled at half speed. They have a speed of 0, not you. That's one reason a grappled creature might grapple their grappler back. Grapple.
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
If you are grappled means no speed for you, but the grappler can move you, such as flying upwards.
You left out an important detail: the grappler can move you at half speed. I wouldn't find that very conducive to flying (unless the two-sizes smaller rule comes into effect).

Remember if someone moves the grappled out of the grappler's reach they are free with no additional penalty, like prone. This at least implies you are treated to be in the same state post grapple as pre grapple. Standing if standing, prone if prone.
Prone's not a penalty. But sure, if you're lying on the ground and someone grabs your scruff and drags you along, you'll probably still be there when she lets go.

The "grappled" condition in no way indicates the target is on the ground. Quite often it's a synonym for "picked up". Their speed is zero because their feet are dangling.
I saw nothing in the rules about "dangling" feet. Speed is zero because that character is not allowed to move on his turn. Interestingly, since dropping prone doesn't require speed, a standing, grappled character can go prone while being grappled. Also interestingly, a grappled character can grapple the grappler (a flying creature, perhaps?), and cause the grappler's speed to be zero if successful.

Being picked up is not the same as standing up. "Removal-from-ground" is not what ends the prone condition; standing up- getting back on one's proper standing limbs- is.
"Being Prone: combatants often find themselves lying on the ground." I'd say removal from the ground counts as ending prone.

You can move someone that you have grappled at half speed. They have a speed of 0, not you. That's one reason a grappled creature might grapple their grappler back. Grapple.
Again, flying at half speed sounds dangerous. Getting grappled while flying: even more dangerous. But sure, magical flight doesn't care about that. Unless the grappled grapples you while flying: then it makes no sense for your speed to become zero.

Winner: rulings, not rules.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
"Being Prone: combatants often find themselves lying on the ground." I'd say removal from the ground counts as ending prone.
.
often doesnt mean always and your ruling directly contradicts “If a flying creature is knocked prone, … the creature falls, unless it has the ability to hover or it is being held aloft by magic, such as by the fly spell."“ - ie a creature does not need to be on the ground to suffer the prone condition

So yes a flying creature attempting to lift a grappled creature moves at half speed and runs the risk of being grappled themselves, but the risk is what makes it exciting - and they can always release their grapple…
 

Dross

Explorer
You left out an important detail: the grappler can move you at half speed. I wouldn't find that very conducive to flying (unless the two-sizes smaller rule comes into effect).


Prone's not a penalty. But sure, if you're lying on the ground and someone grabs your scruff and drags you along, you'll probably still be there when she lets go.


I saw nothing in the rules about "dangling" feet. Speed is zero because that character is not allowed to move on his turn. Interestingly, since dropping prone doesn't require speed, a standing, grappled character can go prone while being grappled. Also interestingly, a grappled character can grapple the grappler (a flying creature, perhaps?), and cause the grappler's speed to be zero if successful.


"Being Prone: combatants often find themselves lying on the ground." I'd say removal from the ground counts as ending prone.


Again, flying at half speed sounds dangerous. Getting grappled while flying: even more dangerous. But sure, magical flight doesn't care about that. Unless the grappled grapples you while flying: then it makes no sense for your speed to become zero.

Winner: rulings, not rules.
Ok i left half speed out but it is still moving contrary to your comment.
Moving at half speed typically (not always) gets them 15ft away, out of melee if flying up.
Dangerous it can be, but I don't see flying becoming non conducive (possible/likely) because of this. And the are many situations where it could be a good option, say around clifts.

Dangerous =/= conducive to play. It may be unwise, silly, and yes dangerous, but it may be the best option given the circumstances. It alo may be less dangerous for a strong flyer facing a melee focused group to remover someone this way.

Sure 'dangling feet' are not in the grapple rules, but neither is 'made prone'. Prone is a separate condition. I feel a bear hug a better image conceptionally and more conducive to the flow of play then being prone, because
1- bear hug you only push away what is holding you, land on your feet (not far enough to be called a fall).
2-made prone, and breaking away you are either prone, with all that entails, or get a no move cost stand.

And prone may be an issue. If you don't like penalties then problem (advantaged melee attacks within 5ft (which can be substituted for a shove or grapple), disadvantaged attacks from prone), and or a bonus (disadvantaged range attacks v prone) or both at once. Then there's the standing up from prone using 1/2 your speed.

If a grappled person went prone? My rulings
If on the ground, would still be grappled because they would still be in reach, but now also prone.
In the air? Since you haven't broken the grapple you are still being held. I don't see it reasonable that
1 it frees you from the grapple, and
2 (based on your earlier comments summed up as prone = on the ground), places you prone on the ground. I consider it one of those times it is outside the 'often on the ground' part of prone. Breaking the grapple and falling probably leaves you prone. Again my ruling would be if prone pre-grapple the then you are prone after hitting the ground and. If standing pre-grapple stay standing. Then for both follow the falling rules (which depending on the drop distance and your interpretation of immune may mean still standing if standing pre-grapple)

Just to be sure though, you state removal from ground = no longer prone and grappled = on the ground. What if already off the ground when grappled? Because until this reply, removal from ground = not prone and flying has you removed from the ground

I do prefer that the one grappled can't do anything other then try to escape the grapple, as that would limit the counter grapple. But that gets into house rules.
 

You left out an important detail: the grappler can move you at half speed. I wouldn't find that very conducive to flying
Eh? The flyer flies more slowly when it is carrying something heavy. That's pretty much what happens in the real world when an eagle catches a large fish.
I saw nothing in the rules about "dangling" feet. Speed is zero because that character is not allowed to move on his turn.
Correct, it doesn't say why the character can't move. But given that the most common cause of the grappled condition is a giant tentacle monster of some sort, lifted off the ground is a valid narrative interpretation.
Interestingly, since dropping prone doesn't require speed, a standing, grappled character can go prone while being grappled.
Doesn't say you can't, doesn't say you can. The DM decides based on what makes narrative sense. It's certainly possible to have both the prone and grappled condition - which implies that if you are grappled but NOT prone you are NOT on the ground.
 

Incenjucar

Legend
Prone just means you're fully horizontal instead of fully vertical, in an orientation which limits your leverage. A prone snake typically is on its back. Being prone in the air just means you're in the same rough orientation but without ground beneath you.

D&D doesn't typically handle things like being upside down, crouched, or curled up.
 

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