Grappling an "overrunning" character

[Waylander the Slayer]

Thank you for all your help in advance.

What happens when character 1 is trying to overrun character 2 and character 2 attempts to grapple as part of the AoO and suceeds?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The overrunner has presumably already spent his move action and his standard action to attempt to overrun, and therefore his turn is done. He ends his turn grappled.

It's not all that different from someone using their AoO to disrupt a spellcaster.

 

[werk]

Same as trip, it pretty much interrupts the overrun if successful.

 

[frankthedm]

Thank you for all your help in advance.

What happens when character 1 is trying to overrun character 2 and character 2 attempts to grapple as part of the AoO and suceeds?

It can't succed. The AoO only gave the opportunity to make the touch attack that starts the grapple attempt.

Grapple ~ Step 3
Hold. Make an opposed grapple check as a free action.

AoOs don't grant aditional free actions, they grant a single attack. This one of the factors that balance out Improved grab and Improved grapple. Neither work off Readies or AoOs.

 

[BobROE]

It can't succed. The AoO only gave the opportunity to make the touch attack that starts the grapple attempt.

Grapple ~ Step 3
Hold. Make an opposed grapple check as a free action.

AoOs don't grant aditional free actions, they grant a single attack. This one of the factors that balance out Improved grab and Improved grapple. Neither work off Readies or AoOs.

They don't need to grant additional free actions since

Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free.

So as part of my attack action I'm allowed to perform any number (up to DM limit) of free actions.

 

[frankthedm]

So as part of my attack action I'm allowed to perform any number (up to DM limit) of free actions.

perform any number (up to DM limit) of free actions on your turn that is.

An AOO is not an attack action. The AoO is a single melee attack that happens when it is not your turn. You also cannot quickdraw as part of an AoO.

Less restrictive than an AoO is the Ready action and even that one only lets someone perform a single free action if that was what they readied.

Action Types
An action’s type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform (within the framework of the 6-second combat round) and how movement is treated. There are six types of actions: standard actions, move actions, full-round actions, free actions, swift actions, and immediate actions.

In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action.

In some situations (such as in a surprise round), you may be limited to taking only a single move action or standard action.


Free Action
Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free.

Swift Action
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.

Immediate Action
An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time — even if it's not your turn.

Not an Action
Some activities are so minor that they are not even considered free actions. They literally don’t take any time at all to do and are considered an inherent part of doing something else.

Restricted Activity
In some situations, you may be unable to take a full round’s worth of actions. In such cases, you are restricted to taking only a single standard action or a single move action (plus free actions as normal). You can’t take a full-round action (though you can start or complete a full-round action by using a standard action; see below).

Readying an Action
You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition.

 

[werk]

So you're saying that an AoO is just a single melee attack and is not an action at all?




Well...that tidy's things up a bit.

 

[frankthedm]

So you're saying that an AoO is just a single melee attack and is not an action at all?

I’ve looked over the whole section on AoOs and they are never called out as actions. The text specifies an attack of opportunity is a single melee attack. It even calls out AoOs "interrupts" the normal flow of actions in the round, but it never calls them actions.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm

Now I’ll be the first to admit this is an almost too strict reading for the way AoO’s and grapples operate, but I honestly think this adds some measure of balance to how much Improved Grapple can shut someone down. In addition, reading this way ensures those big nasty monsters with Improved Grab and Reach can’t yank the tank into grapple on that AoO, having to wait until their own turn to apply Improved Grab. I think that is the preferable situation rather than the improved grabber snagging someone on its AoO and then walking / double moving / running away on its actual turn as improved grab allows.

 

[werk]

Now I’ll be the first to admit this is an almost too strict reading for the way AoO’s and grapples operate, but I honestly think this adds some measure of balance....

I can think of a lot of benefits from this reading, and no real problems (unless you count pouting PCs).

What I was looking for last night was something saying that you can only make actions on your turn, which would further cement that AoO are not actions. All I could really find was this: "When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions." but then it says "(For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)" which seems to imply that AoO are actions that can be taken outside your turn.

Is there anything else that says you can't make actions outside of your turn?

(I'm very interested in this reading as my dwarf just picked up Hold the Line and Close Quarters Fighting...very concerned about AoO all of a sudden.)

 

[KarinsDad]

Now I’ll be the first to admit this is an almost too strict reading for the way AoO’s and grapples operate, but I honestly think this adds some measure of balance to how much Improved Grapple can shut someone down.

I don't.

Quite frankly, it's the rules. The only exception I know to these rules is that of talking outside one's turn (and that is optional).

A Readied Action is a single action. An AoO is a single attack.


This is also why a Cleave can be done on an AoO. It is not a free action.

This is also why a Quickened Spell could not be cast on an AoO in the original core rules (pre-swift action rules). Originally, it was a free action.


If one allows a Grapple on an AoO, one should also allow (original rules) a Quickened Spell on an AoO.