grappling and reflex saves

[Bad Paper]

Do grappling or pinning affect your Reflex save? I can only see that these happy events affect your Dex bonus to AC. It seems to me that if you're being pinned, those fireballs should become a whole lot scarier.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Grappling? No.

Pinning? Maybe.

The PHB Glossary mentions that you need to have "room to move" in order to make a Reflex save (not that you must be able to move at least 5', but that you must be able to dodge, or something).

Someone who is pinned is immobile - they can't move.

So, can they make a Reflex save?

 

[Geoff Watson]

They get a Reflex save, but can't use Evasion.

Geoff.

 

[Len]

They get a Reflex save, but can't use Evasion.

How do you figure that? I don't see any additional restrictions in the description of Evasion. If they have "room to move" for a reflex save, that's all they need, by the RAW. (Unless I'm missing something?)

 

[darthkilmor]

It seems to me that if you're being pinned, those fireballs should become a whole lot scarier.

Both for the grappler and the grappee

I'd say they auto-fail the reflex save myself. can't move = no reflex

 

[Hypersmurf]

The PHB Glossary mentions that you need to have "room to move" in order to make a Reflex save (not that you must be able to move at least 5', but that you must be able to dodge, or something).

It's the DMG special abilities chapter, under Evasion.

Even if you allow the Reflex save, the footnote to the table of combat modifiers for 'Pinned' explains that a pinned creature is treated as having a Dex of 0 (-5 modifier).

-Hyp.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

so.. they can get a REF {+evasion} when pinned, albiet at a reduced amount.

Unless RBDM decides that they do not have enough room to move and thereby overrides the REF save.

Taking this a step farther, and treating like instances with the same rule, any immobilized {sleeping ? } creature would be treated the same way...

interesting
Perhaps this calls for an addition to my character sheets!

 

[darthkilmor]

It's the DMG special abilities chapter, under Evasion.

Even if you allow the Reflex save, the footnote to the table of combat modifiers for 'Pinned' explains that a pinned creature is treated as having a Dex of 0 (-5 modifier).

-Hyp.

although it also says elsewhere that A character with Dexterity 0 is paralyzed. Kind of interesting the just say for pinned that they're held immobile but don't define what immobile entails. You would Assume immobile != paralyzed

 

[Stalker0]

Even paralysed people get reflex saves. Why? Because a part of the reflex save is pure luck. You give them a -5 for having no ability to dodge, and then they roll and pray that somehow some of the fire died out just as it licked over their area....or the square they were in was a bit more moist and helped soaked up some heat, or something.

 

[frankthedm]

Even paralysed people get reflex saves. Why? Because a part of the reflex save is pure luck. You give them a -5 for having no ability to dodge, and then they roll and pray that somehow some of the fire died out just as it licked over their area....or the square they were in was a bit more moist and helped soaked up some heat, or something.

Evasion And Improved Evasion

These extraordinary abilities allow the target of an area attack to leap or twist out of the way. Rogues and monks have evasion and improved evasion as class features, but certain other creatures have these abilities, too.

If subjected to an attack that allows a Reflex save for half damage, a character with evasion takes no damage on a successful save.

As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one squeezing through an area cannot use evasion.

As with a Reflex save for any creature, evasion is a reflexive ability. The character need not know that the attack is coming to use evasion.

Rogues and monks cannot use evasion in medium or heavy armor. Some creatures with the evasion ability as an innate quality do not have this limitation.

Improved evasion is like evasion, except that even on a failed saving throw the character takes only half damage.