Greater magic weapon on magic weapons

[James McMurray]

I find this rule problematic. All my players do is buy weapons with only +1 standard bonus and then elemental / holy damage and keen abilities out of the wazoo.

Which is why Sunder will ruin that player's day, and make them think about getting higher natural enhancement bonuses.

 

[James McMurray]

I'd make sure to invest in the unbreakable quality in any weapon above +5 total enchantment.

Where can the unbreakable quality be found?

 

[Caliban]

I see your point, though it is arguable that the 50 arrows count as a single target, in that they normally count as a target for the spell, and they're normally enchantable that way anyway.

Of course, I have to make sure my DM doesn't hear about this interpretation...then again, he came up with the idea, anyway.

Brad

*shrug* I'm not sure how you can argue that 50 objects count as a single target, but if you feel comfortable using the spell under false pretenses, go ahead.

I certainly will never let a 15th level character create up to 800 +5 arrows with a single spell, as well as 16 +5 bows with a second casting. That would make an otherwise mundane unit of archers a nearly unstoppable force on the battlefield.

 

[magnas_veritas]

Which is why Sunder will ruin that player's day, and make them think about getting higher natural enhancement bonuses.

And making the weapon out of adamantine/obdurium and getting a high-level caster to cast Hardness on it will only take you so far.

I swear, making a weapon out of steel just doesn't make sense if you're going to spend a lot of money enchanting it. Even with a high enhancement bonus, you still want it to be as tough as possible. Once it starts hitting a total of +6 in enhancement bonuses, it starts gettng economical for adamantine, and for the truly paranoid, obdurium! (twice hardness and HP of adamantine, from Stronghold Builder's Guidebook)

Brad

 

[magnas_veritas]

*shrug* I'm not sure how you can argue that 50 objects count as a single target, but if you feel comfortable using the spell under false pretenses, go ahead.

In that they're considered a single target (or the equivalent of one) for the purposes of the original spell, and I really don't see why it'd change for the purposes of using Chain Spell.

I certainly will never let a 15th level character create up to 800 +5 arrows with a single spell, as well as 16 +5 bows with a second casting. That would make an otherwise mundane unit of archers a nearly unstoppable force on the battlefield.

If powerful spellcasters are participating in a mass battle, you're going to have stuff like that happen, and the loser deserves what they get for being out-magicked. In the short term, an invisible caster can fly up and blast a mass dispel into the group, and ruin their day. In the long term, you get the guy who's chain GMWing spells, and that archer unit loses its effectiveness in a day; you just keep out of contact with them until then. To get the guy, you use some divination spells to locate him, Tw/oE onto him, and whack him. But he's using divination spells, too, and he's ready for your assault...

As an aside, one wonders what the systematized, mass use of magic in battle would evolve into. A heavier reliance on skirmishers and light cavalry, maybe, since fireballs would discourage massing for shock value. Divinations and illusions would be very useful, and spells like gate could let armies hit their opponents' center of gravity decisively very fast. One could look at the Black Company books and Wheel of Time for ideas, I guess.

Brad

 

[Caliban]

In that they're considered a single target (or the equivalent of one) for the purposes of the original spell, and I really don't see why it'd change for the purposes of using Chain Spell.

But they are not consired a single target for the purposes of the spell.

It specifically states a single weapon or up to 50 pieces of ammunition. It's either one target or up to 50 targets.

It never says that 50 arrows are considered a single target.

If powerful spellcasters are participating in a mass battle, you're going to have stuff like that happen, and the loser deserves what they get for being out-magicked.

That answer doesn't actually consider the consequences.

A group of archers with bows and arrows like that can do much more damage than a wizard with an empowered cone of cold, and they can keep doing it.

The point is the Chain feat doesn't let it work that way, and there's a reason why it doesn't.

 

[Petrosian]

FWIW...

even with caliban;s interpretation, instead of a pair of 6th level spells, you then throw one chained GMW for the bows, and then a couple of normal 3rd level spells for the arrows, 50 at a time.

its not quite as onerous as the two sixth level spells, but consider that in all likelihood these will be cast by a sentient caster the night before. GMW with extend and chain is only 7th level and lasts more than a full day. GMW extended is only 4th and lasts more than a day at the same caster level.

So it really does not matter whether he spent one 7th and three or four 3rds the night before for 15 +5 weapons (party of six gets a bow and a melee weapon each with 3-4 weapons to spare on throwing things and 150-200 arrows.)

The big deal is still a ton of +5 weapons and net +10 bow.arrows.

is your party gonna run out of 100 arrows in a day?

 

[Caliban]

FWIW...

even with caliban;s interpretation, instead of a pair of 6th level spells, you then throw one chained GMW for the bows, and then a couple of normal 3rd level spells for the arrows, 50 at a time.

its not quite as onerous as the two sixth level spells, but consider that in all likelihood these will be cast by a sentient caster the night before. GMW with extend and chain is only 7th level and lasts more than a full day. GMW extended is only 4th and lasts more than a day at the same caster level.

So it really does not matter whether he spent one 7th and three or four 3rds the night before for 15 +5 weapons (party of six gets a bow and a melee weapon each with 3-4 weapons to spare on throwing things and 150-200 arrows.)

The big deal is still a ton of +5 weapons and net +10 bow.arrows.

is your party gonna run out of 100 arrows in a day?

Hmm... Good point.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

I find this rule problematic. All my players do is buy weapons with only +1 standard bonus and then elemental / holy damage and keen abilities out of the wazoo.

Any character who sets himself up for that much sorrow when the first dispel magic hits deserves what he gets.

 

[Wee Jas]

I find this rule problematic. All my players do is buy weapons with only +1 standard bonus and then elemental / holy damage and keen abilities out of the wazoo.

All your enemies should just buy +1 weps and do the same!

PCs, "More +1 weapons in a lvl 15 adventure?!"

lol