Greater Spell Focus: balanced?

[Ravellion]

As Wizards only have a few 9th level spells, so can fighters only make one of their attacks each round at highest BAB (probably two with haste).

I don't think the argument about advancing monsters really holds. Most of the stuff is quite easy to get at low levels (GSF at 1st level is possible, getting your sleep DC up to 20 for your grey elf.), when advancement cannot be used yet. At higher levels you could, but most creatures actually have a crap will save when advancing, so you'll find high CR creatures being taken out with one spell quite reliably, as your DCs increase 1 every two levels, but their saves only 1 every three HD. Since party balance, or an iconic party, dictates/has one wizard, that throws CR reliability right out the window, although I must agree that at this point I have no problems. I just used to have them... I had to work around DC's too much when trying to challenge my players. Them being just 4 lower (no Spellcasting prodigy, Grey elves or GSF) made such a world of difference: I can actually use Giants or Tanks again as creatures worth their CR. My max Enchantment DC at 20th level is 33. Yours is 37 (or with spellpower, god knows). With the save of a 20th level fighter with a +6 cloak of resistance and iron will being +14 up to +18 dependig on Wisdom, my fighter has a chance, albeit slim. Yours is toast. Always, except a 20. he would have been better off not taking iron will and just taking the spells like a man/ spell target practice.

I just can't see how you all do it without throwing lots of weirdness (ie. the somewhat more exotic creatures of the MM, which I like to reserve for spelcial occasions) at your PCs.

I am not trying to be a horrible little man. I am Dutch you know, even though I am a very short Dutchman (5'9"). if you were pointing to my avatar - I am actually a gnome "hater"! I just thought of the idea of a gnome behind a DM screen to be quite cool. And the horrible... well, blame that on Nutkinland conditioning

 

[IceBear]

My group does it by roleplaying and not powergaming. I, personally, don't see how unbalanced this one feat could be, but then none of my players have shot their ability scores through the roof with magic items. I have one sorcerer PC that has taken both SF and GSF and his DCs aren't anything too difficult to make. I don't have to use monster advancement or "weird" encounters or anything like that. Yes, if he had his Charisma up to 24 or 26 I could see how I'd have a problem, but then I blame that more on too high a Charisma than GSF.

Remember, even if a spellcaster has GSF it only applies to one school and no matter how high the save DC is, there is a 5% chance (natural 20) that the save will be made. Since it cost him a feat to take this (a feat that could have been spent on item creation instead and thus the ability to make a Charisma enhancing item) I see the cost as befitting the gain.

Anyway, I apologize for my earlier comment. I read more bad attitude into your posts than maybe I should have. Also, compared to many other things, I really can't see the need to go postal on GSF. It was the incredulous of that through which I was responding.

IceBear

 

[takew]

My group does it by roleplaying and not powergaming. I, personally, don't see how unbalanced this one feat could be, but then none of my players have shot their ability scores through the roof with magic items. I have one sorcerer PC that has taken both SF and GSF and his DCs aren't anything too difficult to make. I don't have to use monster advancement or "weird" encounters or anything like that. Yes, if he had his Charisma up to 24 or 26 I could see how I'd have a problem, but then I blame that more on too high a Charisma than GSF.

Nuf said...

Put GSF back in the game you TYRANT!

 

[Apok]

Well, I guess I deal with high spell DC's by making the opponents (at least the major ones) on par with my PC's. It's true that, going strictly by-the-book with no modifications, it's very easy for smart players to build their characters in such a way that they become more powerful than an average NPC, but I think that's the point of the game. I just make sure that the enemies are on the same level. Like IceBear, I also try to control the rapid increase of ability scores. It's been debated many times weather characters with very above average starting scores should be considered as "ecl +1 creatures" or somesuch. I don't know if that's true or not, but I do find that things can get way out of hand if you are too generous giving out stat-boosters. Player-made items I don't mind as much since those cost time, money, and XP.

One tactic that is always nice against DC-Nazi's is to use creatures with SR. Since most of the wizards that I DM specialize in Evocation, I will typically nail them with opponents that have good Reflex saves and possibly evasion. There should always be encounters that your players can blow through easily, but every so often throw something at them that's tailor-made against their weaknesses. Some call this metagaming, I call it getting your players to recognize a weakness. Good tactics goes a long way towards making save DC's irrelevant; use Silence spells, have ranged attackers Ready Action to disrupt spells, have enemy mages Ready Action to counterspell, etc. There are plenty of ways to keep wizards in check.

My philosophy - Don't Restrict, Adapt.