Greatest American? (All Over on Page Eight)

[billd91]

Also not every southner owned slaves nor did all southners believe in slavery. I have noticed this new trend to say that all the south was evil and deserved whatever punishment they got. That is very naive. The only reason there was no slavery in the north was because it was not feasible the land was different the crops grown were different.

I might disagree that the only reason there was no slavery in the north was because the crops didn't make it practical (religion and focus on industrial wage labor ideas on the economy were also factors), but I will agree that not all southerners believe in slavery. One of the little secrets of the Confederacy is that there were counties that opposed seccession, opposed slavery, and welcomed the Union armies. There was political diversity that broad brush treatments in most history books can't do justice to.

Now, I don't know what you really mean by the implication that Union soldiers were not somre sort of freedom fighters just because there was plenty of racism in the north. The abolition of slavery was a significant motivating factor for Union soldiers throughout the war. A lot of soldiers did march off to war singing "John Brown's Body", indicating that the extinction of the South's peculiar institution was on their minds. It was one of the issues people could actually wrap their brains around moreso than tarriff and nullification disputes and sectional political allegiances. The racist aspects of the New York draft riots exposes a current of resentment that people felt that they were being drafted to die fighting for the freedom of blacks (as well as other resentments like the ability of wealthier people to avoid the draft).

But I will say fighting in opposition of slavery is a far cry from being free of all forms of racism. White northerners often considered blacks inferior, just not to the point of being consigned to slavery. So they were, in a sense, freedom fighters since that was one of their major aims. Fighters for racial equality, they were not.

 

[billd91]

I guess the things I like about Ben Franklin have to do with his being an inventor and a businessman, as well as a diplomat.

He was also a total horn dog and sexual deviant based on the mores of the times. Tempting to vote for, but I ended up casting my vote for FDR.

 

[Gentlegamer]

Source: Link

So the Confederacy didn't start the war?

A fort in Confederate territory was attacked.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

A fort in Confederate territory was attacked.

Was it? Seems to be it would be the sovereign land of the Union. It’s how embassy works, its how it’s done on warships, and the US currently has a number of forts, military bases that are sovereign US soil...

So I don't see any reason behind your way of thinking.

 

[Elf Witch]

I might disagree that the only reason there was no slavery in the north was because the crops didn't make it practical (religion and focus on industrial wage labor ideas on the economy were also factors), but I will agree that not all southerners believe in slavery. One of the little secrets of the Confederacy is that there were counties that opposed seccession, opposed slavery, and welcomed the Union armies. There was political diversity that broad brush treatments in most history books can't do justice to.

Now, I don't know what you really mean by the implication that Union soldiers were not somre sort of freedom fighters just because there was plenty of racism in the north. The abolition of slavery was a significant motivating factor for Union soldiers throughout the war. A lot of soldiers did march off to war singing "John Brown's Body", indicating that the extinction of the South's peculiar institution was on their minds. It was one of the issues people could actually wrap their brains around moreso than tarriff and nullification disputes and sectional political allegiances. The racist aspects of the New York draft riots exposes a current of resentment that people felt that they were being drafted to die fighting for the freedom of blacks (as well as other resentments like the ability of wealthier people to avoid the draft).

But I will say fighting in opposition of slavery is a far cry from being free of all forms of racism. White northerners often considered blacks inferior, just not to the point of being consigned to slavery. So they were, in a sense, freedom fighters since that was one of their major aims. Fighters for racial equality, they were not.

In my readings most of the union soldiers were fighting to keep the union together not to free slaves. Its a very romantic notion of the union soldiers coming down south bearing arms to free the oppressed. Sure there were some who joined because of their anti slavery beliefs. But the majority were there to stop the south from leaving the union.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

In my readings most of the union soldiers were fighting to keep the union together not to free slaves.

Which is very much the truth. Most of the northern where uneasy when Lincoln began speaking of freeing the slaves and also giving them the right to vote.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Very true, and with good reason, but people have libeled Lincoln and I only offer my support for him.

Like he ain't the only one to get "libeled"....

Besides its fun to enjoy a friendly debate with others.

Yup. Not to mention a "quickie" history lesson.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

the War of Northern Aggression as it was taught in school

You mean you actually got to learn about it in school?!?!?!

"All I learned about the Civil War, I learned from my Mom (the Civil War buff)"

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Like he ain't the only one to get "libeled"....

Yeah but Oprea deserves it.

Yup. Not to mention a "quickie" history lesson.

I truly suggest the History Channel, their website, and a few books (nonfiction and historical fiction) over this thread for a true lesson.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

I might disagree that the only reason there was no slavery in the north was because the crops didn't make it practical (religion and focus on industrial wage labor ideas on the economy were also factors), but I will agree that not all southerners believe in slavery. One of the little secrets of the Confederacy is that there were counties that opposed seccession, opposed slavery, and welcomed the Union armies. There was political diversity that broad brush treatments in most history books can't do justice to.

Not all Southerners could AFFORD slaves! It was only a small, select few landowners who had the capital to afford having slaves and only the VERY, VERY rich who had more than a small handful. Most that had slaves only had a few field hands and a small house staff. The super-large plantations were the ones who had a whole house staff and dozens if not about a hundred field hands. But the majority of white Southerners were too poor to even afford ONE slave, much less a multitude of them.

The economics of the North was vastly different than the South; the North being more industrial which didn't lead to slavery as it was a more complex industry than most were willing to allow a "dumb" slave to do. Whereas the South was mostly agricultural which was much simpler to teach slaves to do than machinery. I don't recall of hearing about slaves doing more than either housework or farm work.

And racism was DEFINITELY everywhere. Not just with the blacks but Indians as well. Which is a pity as we're all the same under the darker skin tone if one gets to know us better!