Greatest Hero of All Time (Preliminary Research before Poll)

[Zarrock God of Evil]

I can't stress this enough, #1 has NOTHING to do with public opinion. And it has nothing to do with tearing down heros. It has EVERYTHING to do with weather you, as a human being will recognise the nobility of the hero's actions.

And keep in mind that Hitler is a hero to many many racists and neo nazis, the greatest hero in fact. Is he a hero to the rest of us? Hell #&c%ing no!

A TRUE hero is considered a hero no mater who hears the story.

Everyone does not have to agree at the same time. It is just that the story presented to a human being will get a response that the person in question is a hero.

So another revision of the language-

A true hero:

1. always tries to do what they think is the right thing putting themselves at risk to do so.
2. achieves whatever right thing it is they set out to do or dies trying (meaning they never give up on a fight, challenge, or goal)
3. must be mortal (i.e. they have to fail sometime)

Additionally the GREATEST hero:

1. would be recognised as a hero if any human being heard about that person.



Aaron

And also - a true hero will act heroically no matter if people will hear about their acts or not. That's what I liked so much about Jean Valjean...

In addition I'd like to add :

John J. Sheridan from Babylon 5

as a nominee

 

[Tyler Do'Urden]

*bump*

 

[Tonguez]

A true hero:

1. always tries to do what they think is the right thing putting themselves at risk to do so.
2. achieves whatever right thing it is they set out to do or dies trying (meaning they never give up on a fight, challenge, or goal)
3. must be mortal (i.e. they have to fail sometime)

Additionally the GREATEST hero:

1. would be recognised as a hero if any human being heard about that person.

I fear that by your definition the Greatest Hero does not exists

CASE 1: Genghis Khan

 

[jester47]

I fear that by your definition the Greatest Hero does not exists

CASE 1: Genghis Khan

I would beg to differ, Martin Luther King springs to mind. While his struggle was for afro-americans, his message and vision was for all humanity because he knew that eventually fighting over our differences no matter if you are black, white, yellow or brown, muslim, christian, bhuddist or whatever, it would eventually destroy all humanity. His message has crossed numerous borders and influenced others, case in point is Nelson Mandela.

Ghengis Kahn was a conqueror pure and simple. Yes he was a great hero to the mongols, and from historical accounts a fun guy to hang out with. But we hear nothing of his deeds where he put his life on the line for those of others, not to mention the whole world. He is the same man that said:

"A man's greatest work is to break his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them all the things that have been theirs, to hear the weeping of those who cherished them, to take their horses between his knees and to press in his arms the most desirable of their women."

I think he would tell you himself that he was not hero and should not be considered such.

Aaron.

 

[kenjib]

I would beg to differ, Martin Luther King springs to mind. While his struggle was for afro-americans, his message and vision was for all humanity because he knew that eventually fighting over our differences no matter if you are black, white, yellow or brown, muslim, christian, bhuddist or whatever, it would eventually destroy all humanity. His message has crossed numerous borders and influenced others, case in point is Nelson Mandela.

But bigots and racists in the USA hate Martin Luther King Jr. That's why he was killed. Do you think that members of the KKK will agree that he is a hero? You'll never find someone who everyone can agree is a hero, and by extension nobody could ever meet your criteria. Your definition of hero, by it's very nature, marginalizes the opinions of minority groups based on whether or not you agree with how they think.

Defining someone as a hero is an inherently subjective process. You can't make it objective. The point of the poll, however, seems to be asking the question of who is the greatest hero to the greatest number of people in the poll's audience. To win the poll the candidate needs to appeal strongly to a big enough plurality that he exceeds the score of others, but he does not need to be (and in fact simply can not be) universally loved. The results of the poll will be very different depending on the audience.

My guess is that on a D&D board where the majority of the population is in the US and the largest minority is spread through Europe the winner will be one of two types:

1. A figure considered selfless and idealistic, such as Gandhi.
2. A adventurer type hero with martial skill, most likely fictional.

 

[herald]

Hero Protaganist from Snow Crash.

 

[Tsyr]

That's one generation early.

And, er, you don't mean "inbred." Just "bred."

Sorry--just woke up on the nitpicky side of the bed, I guess.

Oh no. He does mean imbred, in this case.

 

[jester47]

But bigots and racists in the USA hate Martin Luther King Jr. That's why he was killed. Do you think that members of the KKK will agree that he is a hero? You'll never find someone who everyone can agree is a hero, and by extension nobody could ever meet your criteria. Your definition of hero, by it's very nature, marginalizes the opinions of minority groups based on whether or not you agree with how they think.

Woah slow down there big guy! Take a careful look at what I said 5 posts up. It has nothing to do with numbers and it has nothing to do with everyone. Racists are in every culture, and so someone in every culture will agree that he is not a hero, however that is not the logic I am presenting. I am presenting the logic that if someone in any culture can think he is a hero than he most likely is.

Defining someone as a hero is an inherently subjective process. You can't make it objective. The point of the poll, however, seems to be asking the question of who is the greatest hero to the greatest number of people in the poll's audience. To win the poll the candidate needs to appeal strongly to a big enough plurality that he exceeds the score of others, but he does not need to be (and in fact simply can not be) universally loved. The results of the poll will be very different depending on the audience.

I agree, in most part to what you are saying here. And I agree that the greatest hero does not need to be universally loved. That is not what I am talking about. They would not be heros if they did not have enemies seeking to bring them down.

The idea is that what the hero represents and stands for can cross national and cultural borders with little effort.

The hero can be fictional. There is nothing wrong with that. Spiderman is known as a hero the world over. But so was Bob Marley. Both these guys are well thought of by people in Africa, Asia, Europe, South America, and Australia. But there are people that hate both these guys for really petty reasons. Some dont like Spidey because he is a comic book character and comics to these people are a waste. Some dont like Bob because bob had dirty dreads and smoked a lot of weed.

My guess is that on a D&D board where the majority of the population is in the US and the largest minority is spread through Europe the winner will be one of two types:

1. A figure considered selfless and idealistic, such as Gandhi.
2. A adventurer type hero with martial skill, most likely fictional.

I am just really posting guidelines, remember the zero rule, check with your DM (in this case that wold be your own opinion!).

Aaron.

 

[Henry]

I am going to take a stab at this:

Non-fictional:

Saladin
Henry of Navarre
Cleopatra

Fictional:
James T. Kirk from Star Trek
Ged from the Adventurers tales by Thomas Miller (www.peldor.com)
Sturm Brightblade from Dragonlance
Ripley from the Aliens Trilogy

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Primary requisite of a hero: Willingness to sacrifice self for the greater good. Actual elements of risk need to be there. Predestination of events is a disqualifier, as truly heroic actions are taken by free will ONLY. And pretentious musicians need not apply. Unnecessaily brutal and/or evil methods are also a disqualifier, as is inherent racism.

Real life:
Martin Luther King
Ghandi

Fiction/Legend/Mythology:
Samurai Jack
Robin Hood
Spiderman
Belgarion (this one is a little iffy because of all the predestination going on, but ultimately many of the choices he made with his own mind qualify)
Sparhawk
Arthur
Samwise Gamgee
Davy Crockett
Jean Valjean
Every character ever played by John Wayne (that I know of, I suppose he might have snuck a villain in there that I didn't notice)

2nd String (these characters are often heroic, but are too self-serving on occasion to be full-out heroes):
Jean-Luc Picard
Ben Grimm
Sherlock Holmes
Van Helsing
Indiana Jones
Odysseus

Protagonists (these characters and people were inherently self-serving, and while they may be considered heroes locally, their reasons and/or methods make them protagonists of their stories, not heroes):
Conan
Lancelot
Achilles
William Wallace (RL. The movie version would be 2nd string)

I have NO idea where to put Batman. When written well, Batsy is perpetually on the edge of turning into a villain himself, but he does take a number of selfless actions. Ultimately, though, the fact that the motivation for his quest is deeply personal hurts his hero standing.