Greece! Tell me about Greece!

[Kilmore]

Something quickly game-worthy would be TSR's own "Age of Heroes" Campaign Sourcebook released for 2nd Edition. I don't know how well they did because of their niche audiences, but it does sound like you are in that niche. It had helpful advice for which monsters were appropriate for a Greek campaign. Find it used, it should be cheap.

 

[Kilmore]

BTW, I really hate to disagree with Caudor, but most of the fun in Greece was way before 323 BC.

The Minoan civilization of 2200-1450 is the time period normally associated with Cretian dominance (as opposed to Cretin dominance which happens all the time).

 

[CCamfield]

Unfortunately I believe Cretan history is pretty dull in the Classical and later periods. Possibly some wars but we don't know many details. It was pretty much a backwater that no one was interested in invading.

You might want to check out this d20 Classical Greek setting,

http://www.geocities.com/zozergames/delphi-intro.html

And this thread on rpg.net with articles about ancient Athens:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?threadid=43227&highlight=ancient+athens

 

[Agback]

I've decided to focus on the Isle of Crete. So now, I'm interested in what sort of other nations would invade Greece, and specificly, the Isle of Crete?

From about 540 BCE to about 340 BCE the big threat would have been Persia, which took over Anatolia (Asiatic Turkey, in modern terms) at the beginning of that period and was aggressively expansive. Another plausible threat would be the Phoenicians from what is now The Lebanon and Palestine/coastal Israel. The Phoenicians were a maritime people who expanded throughout the Mediterranean. Phoenicia itself fell to the Persians in the late 6th Century BCE, but Phoenician colonies in North Africa, Sicily, and Spain remained independent (and fought against Greek colonists in Sicily) until the rise of Rome about 200 BCE. Yet another plausible threat to Crete would be Egypt, at least before 525 BCE (when it was conquered by Persia) and after teh death of Alexander (when it became independent again under a Makedonian dynasty, the Ptolemies).

If all this suggests to you that the Persians are the people you want, read Herodotos.

Don't forget that ancient Hellas stretched considerably beyond the bounds of what is now Greece. Eastern Sicily, the southernmost part of Italy (which is the real Graecea), the eastern shore of the Aegean, and parts of the Black Sea coast of what is now Turkey were all inhabited by Greeks in ancient times.

I'm going to divide Crete into a few city-states, and they will war occasionally, as well. Things will stay tense, at best.

There were four significant city-states on Crete: Cydonia (on Canea Bay), Gortyna (on Mesara Bay), Knossos (near Iraklion), and Itanos (now Sitia).

And where the hell in Greece is Sparta?

See that the Peloponnesos has three peninsulas on its southern coast? Well, the gulf between the middle one (Cape Tainaron) and the eastern one (Cape Malea) is the Guld of Lakonia. The largest river that flows into it is the Evrotas (Eurotas). Sparta is on the bank of the Eurotas, about 30 miles (45 km) from the sea. From about 640 BCE (Spartan victory in the 2nd Messenian War) the Spartan territory compromised roughly the southernmost 1/3 of the Peloponnesos, and they had a lot of influence throughout the central and western Pelopennesos.

Regards,

 

[Agback]

G'day

I guess I have been talking mostly about the comparatively well-known Classical Period. If you are more interested in the period of the Trojan Wars, Mycenaean Greece, and the Dark Ages I would recommend some rather different books.

The Odyssey (Homer) rather than Histories (Herodotos), The King Must Die and The Bull from the Sea (Mary Renault).

Regards,


Agback

 

[demiurge1138]

If you are using Crete as your basis for a campaign, remember this: Crete is quite near the island of Thera. In Minoan times, Thera was much bigger. This is because Thera exploded.

I'm sure you can think of a plotline based around that. Especially if you get Tarterus involved.

Demiurge out.

 

[Kilmore]

Here's what I would do. The hell with Greece, the "real" map of the Mediterranian, the cities, the islands, the history, the heroes, etc. Keep the gods.

Create a whole new region for your "pseudo-greek" campaign, give it it's own history, geography, and legends. Keep the gods to drive home the "Greek-ness" of your setting, and maintain the technology of the period (bronze and iron weapons, galleys, etc.). This has several advantages.

1.) You don't have to do quite as much research to get the actual history down. So the history nerd gamers can sit down and shut up.

2.) If there are different aspects of Greek mythhistory that you want to use, but the time frame just don't jibe, you can now do whatever you want.

3.) There's less certainty among your players as to where everything is in the world. Ulysses didn't know where he was going, and neither should your players.

 

[CCamfield]

1.) You don't have to do quite as much research to get the actual history down. So the history nerd gamers can sit down and shut up.

Speaking as one, that's so true.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I don't know in my experience as a history nerd there is no sitting down and shutting up save for sleep and other distractions, but history should always be something that adds to your game not something that drives you or your players mad.

Also, I don't recommend ditching the geographical map, since it's there and it's perfect for playing in a Greek culture. If, on the other hand, you want to disregard the historical/political map, well I that's smoothing out the sand box for new castles. You wanna throw in a few new islands, maybe a flying city or giant demonic turtle or two, well then you're just adding features as opposed to having to come up with new stuff.

Plus Greece is close to the most interesting set o' maps in the world, IMO. Not at all like the Dakotas.

I think your idea for focusing on Crete and giving it a bunch of city states is cool. If I put any information in here that sounded like I dissaproved than I sounded wrong.

Two historical bits that might be of interest to a Crete campaign:

1.) Greek Islands tended to be fairly unified compared to the mainland, but they also tended towards the nastiest internal conflict. In Thucydides and Herodotus the tendency was for some guy to really get things going on one of the major islands, Rhodes or Samos for instance, and then get screwed by someone else in the political structure. This would then result in badness for everyone as the person in exile would go out and get support from other Greek city states or Persia for a counter coup, which, in turn, would trip off all of the complex mainland alliances and power balances resulting in conflict throughout Greece. The Mainland was filled with internal discord, also, but for some reason it tended to be much more localized.

2.) A major problem for the Islands and Crete was the necessity of lumber. Maintaining lovely forests makes the islands much much nicer. Unfortunately, lovely forests are filled with wood that could be made into ships and thus into power. A lot of the conflict on Crete could be over forest rights, and a lot of the uniqueness of your Crete could be whatever general solution the Cretans arrived at with regard to this problem.

That may sound dull, but in DnD economics are epic. So that when the woods are filled with nymphs, satyrs, and cyclopses the whole thing has a new impact. And when a god or goddess can run your land management for you... ...or work to ruin it...

Well you can see how adventurers might be needed.

 

[dave_o]

<3s abroad for all the help. Uhm, there's so much, I'm just going to respond to peoples concerns/comments piecemeal. If I'm talking to you, you'll know it.

About the certainty of position, and using modern Greek maps. I found some ancient (read: REALLY, REALLY WRONG) maps of Greece, and I'll be distributing them to the players, with only places they'd know marked on them (The Isle of Crete, Athens, and the boundries of the city-states and such on Crete).

All the PCs are from Itanos.

Methinks the first plot will revolve around the PCs undertaking several missions to appease Apollo (all are Apollo-ites). These will range from helping establish/upkeep a library, to undermining Ares follower efforts at plunging Itanos into a war on two fronts, one with Egypt, and one with the surrounding city-states. They seek to both unite Crete under one bloody fist, and take Egypt with the other.

When the armies of Ares explode trying to move through Thera, it will perhaps show their wrongness.

So, to continue this awesomeness from you guys, I need the following:

1. Possible/probable NPCs, be they historical, or otherwise. Stats would be nice, but you should probably e-mail those to me. Here's an example statblock:

DARDEN - Male Human Expert 2.
11hp, Initative +1 (Dex), AC: 11 (+1 Dex), Speed 30ft., Hammer +2 Melee (1d6, Crit. x2).

Saves: Fort +0, Ref +1, Will +5.

Abilities: Str 12, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 12.

Skills: Craft (Carpentry) +10, Balance +6, Climb +6, Knowledge (Architecture) +8, Craft (Metalworking) +8.

Feats: Skill Focus (Craft: Carpentry).

This guy's from my All-Favors Mercenary Co. game, btw.

2. A semi-detailed breakdown of Cretian government. I don't need anything incredibly detailed, and please do keep in mind that I am an idiot.

3. As above, but for the criminal justice system.

THANKS!