Greenwood on FR npcs

[Nightfall]

Still wish someone would answer my questions...

 

[eyebeams]

Still wish someone would answer my questions...

It's not really a Realms question.

 

[Nightfall]

What isn't? Why dragons in Faerun are stronger than Demon Princes who have had power over deities before AND some times continue to do so? I mean come on...

 

[Staffan]

What isn't? Why dragons in Faerun are stronger than Demon Princes who have had power over deities before AND some times continue to do so? I mean come on...

Because the game is called Dungeons and Dragons.

 

[Faraer]

As has been said, it isn't a question about the Realms, but about the R&D process of how levels are assigned to characters in sourcebooks.

The answer is that different people write different sourcebooks, there isn't a completely consistent standard of assigning levels, and moreover, those levels are simply suggestions for the DM and not intended not to be taken as actual setting lore -- they change with the coming and going of authors/developers and rulesets.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

As has been said, it isn't a question about the Realms, but about the R&D process of how levels are assigned to characters in sourcebooks.

actual setting lore -- they change with the coming and going of authors/developers and rulesets.

I don't think it's the actual levels, it's the way characters are portrayed in the novels. (They're usually far more powerful and/or competent than their stats indicate.)

People often mock Khelben's stats; they don't match his power in the novels. Where is the Gather Information +30 score?

 

[Faraer]

Their game write-ups, rather, are inadequate and incomplete representations of the characters (some of whom predate these writeups by almost 40 years). Characters in the Realms -- PCs very much included -- tend to have minor, little-used talents and abilities which the published rules don't necessarily model. This touches on your point about spells: the Realms has a vast array of spells (it's far more 'high magic' in variety than in quantity), a larger array of common spells than assumed by D&D, these are available to PCs through roleplaying, and most of the new spells in Ed's novels, at least, have published or unpublished game writeups -- this is a man who at one point didn't introduce new magic into his campaign until he'd had it published in Dragon.

I don't agree with your evaluation of Khelben's information network (and don't recall anyone except you mocking his stats(!)), but given that, it's they who gather the information rather than he. This is another central point about the Realms: what and who you know are more important than the numbers on your character sheet.

Nightfall's question, though, was about dragons and demons, who don't fight in many novels that I recall.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I don't agree with your evaluation of Khelben's information network (and don't recall anyone except you mocking his stats(!))

The same people who mock Elminster for not having a headband of Intellect, who mock Artemis Entreri for being unable to pick a poor-quality lock despite his obviously uber skills in The Crystal Shard, etc.

This is another central point about the Realms: what and who you know are more important than the numbers on your character sheet.

I think the "what and who you know" are actually one of the annoying parts. When heroes get too competent and powerful, nothing is a threat to them.

Maybe you think it's the listed levels or character records that anger people, but it isn't. It's the way the characters are portrayed in the novels that are primary irritants. Stuff like Elminster's Evasion and deus-ex-machina spells are just icing on the cake.

 

[Faraer]

I don't think any substantial number of people are angered or irritated by either of those things. Most people either read and enjoy the novels or ignore them.

(also, the highly competent characters you're objecting to are exactly those who Ed explains in the linked interview -- for the umpteenth time and with extraordinary patience -- are not his choices of protagonists)

 

[Nightfall]

Nightfall's question, though, was about dragons and demons, who don't fight in many novels that I recall.

True but they do and have fought in other places. And I keep wondering why dragons end up being stronger than Demon Princes since they generally have more power. I mean when was the last time you saw a dragon ruling any of the Outer Planes? I don't think they have, yet Demon Princes have complete control over their planes and then are said to be "less powerful" than a dragon? That just doesn't work for me.