Grenadier Proposal

[Qik]

I can't imagine it's an extra action to draw the bomb as well. If it were, the description would point out that the stuff to be infused would have to be in hand.

I like the archetype, and I don't see anything too unbalancing with allowing stacking with Alchemical Weapon. It's a neat trick which requires some feat expenditures, but it's not nearly as broken as some of the other archetypes out there. Even if it were borderline, I'd allow it simply for the coolness factor.

I agree, both about the infusion's required actions and about the coolness factor of potentially stacking Alchemical Weapon and other abilities/items/etc. It's very "alchemist."

 

[HolyMan]

I'm all in with the cool factor. A great axe wielder using items to add extras to his weapon has great fluff and RP potential.

The archtype made it a move action and thus that is well.

The discovery makes the infusing of the bomb a standard action, really listing this action as part of the attack, and gives you what use to be a move action for free.

So in a round you would...
A) draw your ammunition (free) - No AoO

B) take the standard action to use the Explosive Missile discovery an SU ability - No AoO
-1b) get to load the ammunition - (free, use to be a move action) - use to draw an AoO crossbows only
-2b) aim and fire (free, use to be a standard action) - use to draw an AoO

C) Still be able to take a move action this round.

The above is why I would make it a full round action. Gives you the extras in a round, applying something shouldn't be a free action till you are like level 10 or more..

I didn't see that you needed to hit the regular AC, that makes a little difference in it's power but still not liking all it gives.

As to Grenadier I like that there is a archtype that "good" characters can play without having abilities they won't use much. That whole poison use should have been like channel energy...

An evil PC makes and uses poisons while

A good PC makes and uses curatives.

HM

 

[IronWolf]

I like the archetype, and I don't see anything too unbalancing with allowing stacking with Alchemical Weapon. It's a neat trick which requires some feat expenditures, but it's not nearly as broken as some of the other archetypes out there. Even if it were borderline, I'd allow it simply for the coolness factor.

I agree with Systole, I really don't have any issue with them stacking. In my opinion LPF needs to stay away from too many house rules. It makes it very confusing for new players (or even some of us that have been around for awhile and have to look through thread after thread to find what variation we make).

We have in the past stuck with RAW even in cases a lot of us agree it could be done better, simply to make sure people only have to turn to the rulebooks to get answers to their questions. It sets the foundation for organized play in my opinion. For home games, house rule away. For organized play house rules start to become overwhelming.

The discovery makes the infusing of the bomb a standard action, really listing this action as part of the attack, and gives you what use to be a move action for free.

So in a round you would...
A) draw your ammunition (free) - No AoO

B) take the standard action to use the Explosive Missile discovery an SU ability - No AoO
-1b) get to load the ammunition - (free, use to be a move action) - use to draw an AoO crossbows only
-2b) aim and fire (free, use to be a standard action) - use to draw an AoO

Eh, I think this is stretching a bit. As it is written those appear to all be under the guise of letting you do things under the standard action. I don't see anywhere that it is changing action types to free, just letting you do more with your single standard action.

So ultimately, firing a ranged weapon from a threatened square as a standard action (which is what the discovery says, all of those things are done as a standard action) still draws an AoO.

 

[IronWolf]

So with all that said, I don't see anything horrible with this and vote YES to allowing it as written.

 

[Satin Knights]

I'd go with Ironwolf's interpretation and I will vote YES.

 

[HolyMan]

So ultimately, firing a ranged weapon from a threatened square as a standard action (which is what the discovery says, all of those things are done as a standard action) still draws an AoO.

Firing a range weapon does, but using a supernatural ability does not.

I'm thinking the action you take in the round is the standard action to use your supernatural ability, not a standard action to fire (or even a move action to load). Thus you get to load and shot without drawing the AoO you normally would.

HM

 

[dammitbiscuit]

If I'm drawing and shooting a ranged weapon in melee, I'm fine with provoking. The ability doesn't seem to imply that the loading or firing is done "supernaturally", just that I can supernaturally infuse my bomb into an arrow without making the arrow be wildly off-balance. I'd be pretty happy with infusing a bomb into an arrow without making it wildly off-balance, IC or OOC, if I were a Grenadier.

 

[IronWolf]

Firing a range weapon does, but using a supernatural ability does not.

I readily admit I am not super familiar alchemists, but are discoveries considered supernatural abilities?

I'm thinking the action you take in the round is the standard action to use your supernatural ability, not a standard action to fire (or even a move action to load). Thus you get to load and shot without drawing the AoO you normally would.

I still think we are over thinking the intent of this rule and reading things into it that were not intended.

 

[GlassEye]

I agree with IronWolf.

And my vote: YES (the fourth).

 

[Qik]

Where on the wiki should we list that this archetype is available - the "Approved Sources" section of "Creating a Character"?