D&D 4E Greyhawk 4e: Back to the Beginning...

[teitan]

Tell that to Horde players...

Level 62 Orc Warrior for FTW!!!

 

[haakon1]

I like the re-boot idea.

I hated Greyhawk Wars and FTA.

I still haven't played 4e. All I bought was the PHB, and it gave me no inspiration to actually learn the rules and convert a campaign. So I'm still buying old 3.5 stuff when I can find it. Getting some good sales too, up to 40% off, for now. Planning to write my own or resort my 3.5 collection when they stop making more. And seeing some pretty sad FLGS folks when I buy only the old stuff.

Anyhow, I'd definitely buy a re-booted Greyhawk and if I like it, I'd think about going 4e. Which would sell a set of DM books and about 10 4e PHBs across my two campaigns, if I go all in.

Not sure if that helps WOTC market research.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

Well, then this might be something I could go for. Though I feel a Reniessance setting is more interesting than a Dark Ages setting, so I might tweak the book anyway.

 

[Korgoth]

You had me at "Greyhawk Wars never happened"!

You can say that again, brother.

I'm not into 4E, but if I was I would be into the sort of Greyhawk described. I don't care for much of anything that comes after the 1983 boxed set (which was incredibly good) so I'd be happy to see them erase all that poo. Especially the wars/ashes nonsense. Blech!

 

[Klaus]

You can say that again, brother.

I'm not into 4E, but if I was I would be into the sort of Greyhawk described. I don't care for much of anything that comes after the 1983 boxed set (which was incredibly good) so I'd be happy to see them erase all that poo. Especially the wars/ashes nonsense. Blech!

1983 boxed set + City of Greyhawk boxed set for me. Not so keen on the Greyhawk Adventures hardcover, though.

 

[Korgoth]

1983 boxed set + City of Greyhawk boxed set for me. Not so keen on the Greyhawk Adventures hardcover, though.

I never got that CoG boxed set, but I heard it was pretty good. I have the GA hardcover, and it's probably worth the 5 dollars I paid for it. There are a few things in there of some use.

 

[S'mon]

I never got that CoG boxed set, but I heard it was pretty good.

I had good fun with it, but it's much more nicer, more whimsical, and 2e-ish Greyhawk than Gygaxian Greyhawk. There was a scenario about a magical talking goat running for Mayor of Greyhawk - "Vote for the Goat". White Dwarf called it "Greyhawk Garden City" after Milton Keynes.

 

[Ulrick]

From the Ashes was the first campaign setting boxed set I ever owned. I bought it when I was 11 or 12. I really liked Greyhawk from that point on simply because I didn't know any better. Then my older brother let me keep his World of Greyhawk boxed set a couple years later. I loved how the world wasn't all explained. Each territory was given sparse treatment and it was up to the DM to fill in the details. I have just about every Greyhawk module or supplement out there. Even with all of this information, Greyhawk lacked the fluff of say, Forgotten Realms. Which was okay--I could easily make Greyhawk how I wanted it to be.

But because I have almost all of the Greyhawk stuff, I'd be annoyed somebody rebooted Greyhawk.

But only a little. Would there be a market for a reboot? Out of my 20 or so years of gaming I've only encountered one other DM in real life who's run a Greyhawk Campaign. The rest have either been homebrews, Forgotten Realms or (as of 3.0/5) Eberron.

Given the lackluster treatment of Greyhawk by WotC (despite its default status and Erik Mona's efforts), it seemed that WotC knew that the Greyhawk fan wasn't a strong marketing base. Making Greyhawk the default setting seemed to just adhere to their "Back to the Dungeon" philosophy for 3e. Appeasing Greyhawk fans seemed a distant second, if that.

 

[grodog]

Greyhawk's market

Would there be a market for a reboot? Out of my 20 or so years of gaming I've only encountered one other DM in real life who's run a Greyhawk Campaign. The rest have either been homebrews, Forgotten Realms or (as of 3.0/5) Eberron.

Given the lackluster treatment of Greyhawk by WotC (despite its default status and Erik Mona's efforts), it seemed that WotC knew that the Greyhawk fan wasn't a strong marketing base. Making Greyhawk the default setting seemed to just adhere to their "Back to the Dungeon" philosophy for 3e. Appeasing Greyhawk fans seemed a distant second, if that.

Just to correct this misconception, per Lisa Stevens, Greyhawk's market was strong when the decision was made to kill it:

Or perhaps the fact that Greyhawk doesn't sell.

Don't get me wrong: I like Greyhawk, too. But when compared to the incredibly successful franchises Forgotten Realms, Eberron, or even the ordinary supplements that WotC puts out, Greyhawk cannot even carry a torch.

Well, I can tell you, as the last person who was the Greyhawk Brand Manager at WotC, that Greyhawk sold almost as well as Forgotten Realms. It was a really successful line of products. However, when we started 3rd edition, the manager of D&D at the time decided that we had too many campaign settings, so Greyhawk got put off to the side in favor of FR. It had everything to do with not starting the proliferation of game settings and nothing to do with sales. Just for the record.

Lisa Stevens
CEO

Original post @ paizo.com - Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Older Products / Dragon Magazine / Dragon Compendium / AoW HC and Dragon Compendium II

 

[haakon1]

Erik Mona, Gary Holian, and Frederick Weining notwithstanding, I loathe most of the post-From the Ashes canon
. . .
Indeed, one of the things that aggravates me most about my fellow Greyhawk fans is their seeming need to make sure everything in their campaigns is perfectly lined up with existing canon, instead of just making up whatever suits their campaigns.
. . .
The reason I hate FtA is not because it messed up my non-existent campaigns, but because it took a setting I found to be a tremendous source of inspiration, and turned it upside down. It wrecked so many good things about the setting. To see it wiped away can only be a good thing, in my estimation.

I agree about FtA and the Erik Mona era.

As for Greyhawkers being sticklers for canon, eh, no, me lad. Back in the day, I was on AOL Greyhawk from 1996-1999, when guys like Erik Mona were just regular home gamers. Those folks approached Greyhawk as something to be treasured, but also to be advanced and tinkered with. Lots of good ideas from people sharing homebrew 'Hawk -- which was the only kind having new stuff -- back then. I remember Dyvers as a home of clockwork mechanisms and Hardby as a center of herb and drug trade being particularly interesting bits that I yoinked into my home campaign.

Gary Gygax, on EnWorld, also had very much the yoink what you like and make it your own attitude. He also thought that public setting timelines should never be advanced. Basically, that old Simpson's line: "Walk away, it belongs to the ages now" was his philosophy.

Long live Greyhawk, and viva la Colonel!