Greyhawk characters in Epic Level Handbook?

[William Ronald]

I was at the ELH seminar at Gen Con and it was mentioned that there would be some Greyhawk characters in it. As for the power level between GH and FR, I would argue that FR seems to have more epic level characters. However, there is a good likelihood that some of the Circle of Eight, their foes, and their allies could be epic level.

 

[MythandLore]

According to info already published on the net, there will be several epic level characters from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting restatted in the Epic Level Handbook. Any chance we can get Mordenkainen and company in there as well?
As Greyhawk is now the 'default' setting for D&D, this would seem to make more sense than having a second published version of Big El that us 'Hawk fans will never use anyway. Whaddaya say, Anthony and Andy? Pleazzze?

It should have The Justicar's post Demon Web stats.

 

[Nightfall]

*is happy with the Death Knights listed in LGG Dragon issue 291*
St. Kazagoth still ROCKS! I wish though he had a few levels in Templar and/or Duelist.

 

[Holy Bovine]

I participated in the thread on the old boards just a week or so ago in which Gary Gygax (Col_Pladoh) said he still played Mordie on occasion but remained close mouthed about wether Mord's stats would be in ELH or not. Not particularly helpful but its On-Topic!

 

[A'koss]

Philidor again.

Cyronax, apparantly the whole point of creating a construct (remember it's just a fancy golem, not an avatar) was to circumvent the ban on direct intervention the GH deities have with one another. This way, evil doesn't get a "freebee" in the same way that they do with St. Cuthbert's intervention.

Philidor was created specifically to oppose Iuz - remember that he showed up a year before the signing of the Greyhawk Pact, when it looked like Good was going to be overwhelmed. This is also why he was so interested in the Vesve Forest. Philidor left when the forces of Good came back in power and he was no longer needed.


A'koss!

Hmmm, I wonder if they'll have the Justicar as epic level hero...

 

[A'koss]

One thing I just remembered about Philidor, it wasn't just Pelor's creation, it was a joint effort with Correllon. They knew that they "would be too busy when things heated up" so Philidor would be around to handle them. This is why he often appeared as an elf as well and the close ties to the Vesve...

I remember it was Sameul Weiss who cleared that up, who of course got it from Carl.


A'koss!

 

[Tratyn Runewind]

Hello!

I always like to see interesting stats for well-constructed high-level characters, especially ones with the "D&D History" of the Greyhawk legends. But for those quoting 1e and 2e stats in favor of their arguments, I'm afraid that my suspicion is that all bets are off when it comes to rule-set changes.

I remember when the (half-hearted) attempt was made to convert Mystara/The Known World from the BD&D rules to AD&D 2e. The BD&D rules were designed for play with a maximum level of 36 (plus Immortals!), and Mystara crawled with some interesting high-level types. When it was converted, they all had their experience summarily amputated to fit the Procrustean bed of 20th level.

Still, the very existence of an Epic-Level supplement is a sign of a shift away from that sort of thinking, and hope does spring eternal. So bring on the Mighty of Greyhawk!

 

[chatdemon]

I'd like to see this too. It'd be cool to see the stats for Bigby .

From Living Greyhawk Journal #0:

Bigby, Human, Wizard: 19, HP: 89, AL: N, Str 9, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 21, Wis 15, Cha 12


edit: So, in other words, Bigby is not an Epic level NPC, and I would for that reason not expect to see him in that sourcebook. Of the circle of 8 archmages, only Mordenkainen (level 20+) and Warnes Starcoat (level 20) are likely to make the Epic cut.

 

[chatdemon]

Besides a couple high-level liches, Mordenkainen is the only character in Greyhawk who even approaches being epic level...and I'd be tempted just to make him 20th level.

Rary (level 20+ according to Living Greyhawk Gazeeteer) outranks Mordenkainen (level 20+ according to Living Greyhawk Journal #0) by at least a couple levels.

Warnes Starcoat, also of the Circle of 8, is 20th level according to that same magazine.

Robilar, Rary's right hand man and infamous NPC in his own right, is level 20.

Duke Owen I of Geoff is level 20.

Philidor the Blue is level 20+.

Althea, a high cleric of Iuz, is level 20.

Anfaren Silverbow, ruler of the Elven Realms of the Lendore Isles, is level 20.

The Father of Obiedience, the leader of the Scarlet Brotherhood, is not given a level (it's unknown), but he is sure to be a monk or monk/assassin of level 20+.

Rhelt Sevvord I, ruler of Stonehold, is level 20+.

Jaran Krimeeah, the Mage of the Vale, is level 20+.

Hazen, the ruler of Veluna, is level 20+.

in addition, you have a couple dozen NPCs of level 19, and scores of NPCs in the 15 to 18 range.

And they told you Greyhawk was a low powered campaign...


What I think is important here is that as PCs increase in power, so must NPCs, to maintain a believable balance of power in the game world. I think WotC needs to detail at least a couple of the Epic level candidates I've named, if for no other reason than to set an example for Greyhawk DMs (and Living Greyhawk writers and editors ) to use as a benchmark when levelling up the other NPCs who are close to the Epic threshhold.

 

[chatdemon]

the Queen of Celene.

She (Yolande, btw) is actually fairly low powered compared to what you would expect from Elves in D&D. She's level 14 iirc, and a prime example of how, with the exception of a couple Elves like Melf Brightflame and the Silverbow guy from Lendore Island, the vast majority of Elves are not the movers and shakers of the setting, that honor is left to humans for the most part in Greyhawk, which is, platitudes about the settings aside, one of the true differences between it and Forgotten Realms.