Greyhawk: Looking for quintessential book on pantheon

catsclaw227 said:
Does anyone know the key reasons why the the core deities were done this way? Is it to represent that cultures merged and that these are the key representatives of the different pantheons?

The cultures have merged, at least in the central Flanaess. There aren't separate "Suel," "Oeridian," or "Flan" cultures there, and haven't been for many centuries. Greyhawk and the Wild Coast are as mixed as any region can be, while even mostly-Suel Urnst has absorbed much from other cultures, including their language and some of their gods. Nations like Keoland and the Yeomanry also worship mixed groups of gods, reflecting the mixed heritage of their nations. The idea of separate pantheons is hundreds of years out of date there, impossibly anachronistic. People are more likely to group the gods by theme than by the migratory peoples who brought their worship to that region a millennium ago, to speak of (or worship at a temple dedicated to) the gods of luck or the gods of war rather than the gods of the Oeridians or the gods of the Flan.

In other parts of the world, the pantheons are very much separate. The Baklunish of the west for the most part worship only Baklunish gods. The Tenha and Rovers of the Barrens worship mainly Flannae gods. The Scarlet Brotherhood, the Thillronian and Amedi barbarians, and the Lendorian humans worship only Suel gods. The Touv worship Touv gods, the Olmans worship Olman gods, and parts of the former Great Kingdom are strongly into Oeridian pride, despite their long history of intermixing (though there are exceptions there, Oeridian gods like Hextor, Heironeous, Zilchus, and Pholtus are among the most popular).

A few gods have identities in multiple pantheons at once. The god known as Pelor to the Flan is known to the Paynims as Al'Asran and to the Oeridians as Sol, for example, and he's one of the major patron gods of the Baklunish nation of Ekbir. The Orb of Sol forms part of the coat of arms of the proudly Oeridian nation of Aerdy. Boccob is known to the Baklunish as Al'Zarad. Both Pelor and Nerull are worshiped on multiple worlds.

But no, there was no reason or thought put into this when it comes to the core pantheon. Those are just the deities that seemed most iconic, and which fit into the scheme Jonathan Tweet had in mind the best. Sometimes, as with St. Cuthbert, the gods were changed a little bit to suit what the 3e design team wanted rather than for any reason having anything to do with the gods' places in the World of Greyhawk.

Do the various Gods of one pantheon acknowledge the others (in a documented way)?

Yes. There are a number of cross-pantheon alliances and rivalries. For example, Fortubo is much closer to the dwarven pantheon than the Suel pantheon he was born into. The gods share the same set of Outer Planes, for the most part. Their pantheons are in some cases their "families" (which doesn't necessarily mean all the gods in the same pantheon are blood-relations; the Suel gods are all descendents of Lendor, except possibly Dalt and Vatun, but other pantheons include ascended mortals and gods who don't necessarily share a common descent) but they have to deal with gods outside their family, as they often compete for the same worshipers. Other gods may not think of their pantheons as anything but an arbitrary mortal construct that they could care less about, and which mortals have even forgotten for the most part.

For example, Wee Jas considers Myrhiss to be her rival over the dominion of beauty (according to the LGG, anyway; the Dragon article makes it sound like Wee Jas could care less about deities outside the Suel pantheon, so your mileage may vary). Ulaa, a goddess of unknown origin originally worshiped by a race that became extinct over 10,000 years ago, is married to the Oeridian god Bleredd. Rudd, who was sponsored into divinity by the common god Olidammara, is said to be the daughter of the Suel god Norebo. Pelor, as Al'Asran, sponsored the apotheosis of both the Baklunish demigod Al'Akbar and the Baklunish hero-deity Azor'Alq. The Suel god Vatun was imprisoned by clerics of the Oeridian god Telchur. The archmage Zagig imprisoned Olidammara, Rudd, the Baklunish demigod Zuoken and the Oeridian goddess Merikka in the same castle, among others. The common god Cyndor serves the Suel god Lendor but directs the duties of the Oeridian goddess Merikka. Rao, a god of Flannae origin, is closely allied with the Oeridian god Zilchus and the common god St. Cuthbert, probably more closely than with his "younger brother," the Flannae god Allitur. It says in the Greyhawk Player's Guide and Warriors of Heaven (probably no longer considered canon) that the male Flan god Allitur is the same being as the Oeridian goddess Alia, the mother of Heironeous and Hextor.
 
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Ripzerai said:
The cultures have merged, at least in the central Flanaess. There aren't separate "Suel," "Oeridian," or "Flan" cultures there, and haven't been for many centuries. Greyhawk and the Wild Coast are as mixed as any region can be, while even mostly-Suel Urnst has absorbed much from other cultures, including their language and some of their gods. Nations like Keoland and the Yeomanry also worship mixed groups of gods, reflecting the mixed heritage of their nations. The idea of separate pantheons is hundreds of years out of date there, impossibly anachronistic. People are more likely to group the gods by theme than by the migratory peoples who brought their worship to that region a millennium ago, to speak of (or worship at a temple dedicated to) the gods of luck or the gods of war rather than the gods of the Oeridians or the gods of the Flan.

In other parts of the world, the pantheons are very much separate. The Baklunish of the west for the most part worship only Baklunish gods. The Tenha and Rovers of the Barrens worship mainly Flannae gods. The Scarlet Brotherhood, the Thillronian and Amedi barbarians, and the Lendorian humans worship only Suel gods. The Touv worship Touv gods, the Olmans worship Olman gods, and parts of the former Great Kingdom are strongly into Oeridian pride, despite their long history of intermixing (though there are exceptions there, Oeridian gods like Hextor, Heironeous, Zilchus, and Pholtus are among the most popular).

A few gods have identities in multiple pantheons at once. The god known as Pelor to the Flan is known to the Paynims as Al'Asran and to the Oeridians as Sol, for example, and he's one of the major patron gods of the Baklunish nation of Ekbir. The Orb of Sol forms part of the coat of arms of the proudly Oeridian nation of Aerdy. Boccob is known to the Baklunish as Al'Zarad. Both Pelor and Nerull are worshiped on multiple worlds.

But no, there was no reason or thought put into this when it comes to the core pantheon. Those are just the deities that seemed most iconic, and which fit into the scheme Jonathan Tweet had in mind the best. Sometimes, as with St. Cuthbert, the gods were changed a little bit to suit what the 3e design team wanted rather than for any reason having anything to do with the gods' places in the World of Greyhawk.



Yes. There are a number of cross-pantheon alliances and rivalries. For example, Fortubo is much closer to the dwarven pantheon than the Suel pantheon he was born into. The gods share the same set of Outer Planes, for the most part. Their pantheons are in some cases their "families" (which doesn't necessarily mean all the gods in the same pantheon are blood-relations; the Suel gods are all descendents of Lendor, except possibly Dalt and Vatun, but other pantheons include ascended mortals and gods who don't necessarily share a common descent) but they have to deal with gods outside their family, as they often compete for the same worshipers. Other gods may not think of their pantheons as anything but an arbitrary mortal construct that they could care less about, and which mortals have even forgotten for the most part.

For example, Wee Jas considers Myrhiss to be her rival over the dominion of beauty (according to the LGG, anyway; the Dragon article makes it sound like Wee Jas could care less about deities outside the Suel pantheon, so your mileage may vary). Ulaa, a goddess of unknown origin originally worshiped by a race that became extinct over 10,000 years ago, is married to the Oeridian god Bleredd. Rudd, who was sponsored into divinity by the common god Olidammara, is said to be the daughter of the Suel god Norebo. Pelor, as Al'Asran, sponsored the apotheosis of both the Baklunish demigod Al'Akbar and the Baklunish hero-deity Azor'Alq. The Suel god Vatun was imprisoned by clerics of the Oeridian god Telchur. The archmage Zagig imprisoned Olidammara, Rudd, the Baklunish demigod Zuoken and the Oeridian goddess Merikka in the same castle, among others. The common god Cyndor serves the Suel god Lendor but directs the duties of the Oeridian goddess Merikka. Rao, a god of Flannae origin, is closely allied with the Oeridian god Zilchus and the common god St. Cuthbert, probably more closely than with his "younger brother," the Flannae god Allitur. It says in the Greyhawk Player's Guide and Warriors of Heaven (probably no longer considered canon) that the male Flan god Allitur is the same being as the Oeridian goddess Alia, the mother of Heironeous and Hextor.
I wish that "they" could have made this deeper, because as you described above, any simpleton could understand the relationships.

</sarcasm>

Aaak....
 

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