D&D 5E Greyhawk: Player Options for a Campaign Setting

[Hussar]

Well, that is one of the bigger hurdles of Greyhawk - you mention Kara Tur was originally supposed to be on Oerth, for example.

Thing is, SO MUCH of what was original in GH has been exported to other settings - a lot of the monsters have become either "generic D&D" or plunked down in this or that setting (typically Forgotten Realms). A lot of the demon/planar stuff got ported over to the Planescape setting with various demon lords, gods and whatnot becoming again, either "Generic D&D" or stuffed into specific settings.

It does make any update to Greyhawk somewhat of a challenge since so much of the meat of has been picked off by scavengers over the years.

 

[Emirikol]

I just finished the book, Slaying the Dragon, by Ben Riggs.

The biggest takeaway for me was clarity about how multiple game settings was a major killer for TSR.

When Wizards bought TSR, they realized they needed to create fans of dnd products, rather than followers of a setting because people wouldn't but "other setting products." This was certainly the case between F.Realms and Greyhawk.

Generic books with mentions in the back by setting are the norm now.

 

[Hussar]

I just finished the book, Slaying the Dragon, by Ben Riggs.

The biggest takeaway for me was clarity about how multiple game settings was a major killer for TSR.

When Wizards bought TSR, they realized they needed to create fans of dnd products, rather than followers of a setting because people wouldn't but "other setting products." This was certainly the case between F.Realms and Greyhawk.

Generic books with mentions in the back by setting are the norm now.

Well, yeah, I think that's something of a given. Even if they do do a Best of Greyhawk style book, they're still going to have to make sure that it's like Ghosts of Saltmarsh - something that any group can use.

 

[MoonSong]

No bonus points if Mordenkainen shows up on the very last page of the adventure to tell the PCs "Thank you for saving me that time and effort."

Mord is Lawful Neutral, not good. He is more likely to say "You have toppled a legitimate ruler and thus I and the Circle of Eight -the two that still return my calls- will hunt you down as a treat to order in the Flanaes."

 

[pemerton]

Mord is Lawful Neutral

Canonically he is true neutral.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Canonically he is true neutral.

Which canon?

 

[pemerton]

Which canon?

Mordenkainen's fantastic adventure. From memory, The Rogue's Gallery. And later AD&D and 3E presentations. I can't comment on 5e.

 

[Eltab]

Mord is Lawful Neutral, not good. He is more likely to say "You have toppled a legitimate ruler and thus I and the Circle of Eight -the two that still return my calls- will hunt you down as a treat to order in the Flanaes."

Mord as a Neutral, and self-described "placed my thumbs on both sides of the scales" would want to mess with Iuz's plans to extend his own influence / directly weaken Good powers. To keep Iuz from tipping The Balance in his own favor. (And keep Iuz too busy plotting revenge against the PCs to have any time / attention / resources to come after Mordenkainen.)

 

[MoonSong]

Mord as a Neutral, and self-described "placed my thumbs on both sides of the scales" would want to mess with Iuz's plans to extend his own influence / directly weaken Good powers. To keep Iuz from tipping The Balance in his own favor. (And keep Iuz too busy plotting revenge against the PCs to have any time / attention / resources to come after Mordenkainen.)

But at the same time wouldn't allow anybody to end Iuz for good.

 

[Steampunkette]

Honestly...

As much as Greyhawk means, or meant, to D&D... at this point, Ernie's actions and TSR's situation make a Greyhawk update for 5e focused on what Gary Gygax made fraught with problems.

His eldest son's actions and inaction in relation to his business partner, who is currently going to court with WotC, really make it unlikely, I fear.

Outside of specific adventures, like Expedition, I wouldn't expect to see Greyhawk Support for a while.

 

[Parmandur]

Honestly...

As much as Greyhawk means, or meant, to D&D... at this point, Ernie's actions and TSR's situation make a Greyhawk update for 5e focused on what Gary Gygax made fraught with problems.

His eldest son's actions and inaction in relation to his business partner, who is currently going to court with WotC, really make it unlikely, I fear.

Outside of specific adventures, like Expedition, I wouldn't expect to see Greyhawk Support for a while.

On the other hand, Luke Gygax is a stand-up guy who has good direct relations with the community and WotC. I don't think Ernie Gygax presents a problem: being hard to sell in an elevator speech kind of does.

 

[Steampunkette]

On the other hand, Luke Gygax is a stand-up guy who has good direct relations with the community and WotC. I don't think Ernie Gygax presents a problem: being hard to sell in an elevator speech kind of does.

1) Luke doesn't have Ernie's Name.
2) Lawsuit actively involving Ernie and TSR.
3) Ernie is chilling with a Nazi and Nazi Apologists.

Luke's great. Love the guy. But this is about a hurdle Greyhawk would have to jump in Focus Groups and Marketing. Not "Are 1/2+1 or more of Gary's kids decent people?"

 

[Parmandur]

1) Luke doesn't have Ernie's Name.
2) Lawsuit actively involving Ernie and TSR.
3) Ernie is chilling with a Nazi and Nazi Apologists.

Luke's great. Love the guy. But this is about a hurdle Greyhawk would have to jump in Focus Groups and Marketing. Not "Are 1/2+1 or more of Gary's kids decent people?"

I don't think it will be matter if they did it: nobody is paying attention to that mess now nobody will in that eventuality.

 

[GuyBoy]

Honestly...

As much as Greyhawk means, or meant, to D&D... at this point, Ernie's actions and TSR's situation make a Greyhawk update for 5e focused on what Gary Gygax made fraught with problems.

His eldest son's actions and inaction in relation to his business partner, who is currently going to court with WotC, really make it unlikely, I fear.

Outside of specific adventures, like Expedition, I wouldn't expect to see Greyhawk Support for a while.

You are right here I think. And what a sad thing for both Luke and all fans of the Greyhawk setting that Ernie’s actions have caused this likelihood.
That said, and I speak as a huge Greyhawk fan, the setting matters not one iota compared to standing up to the nasty bigots and neo-Nazis involved in NuTSR

 

[Saracenus]

You are right here I think. And what a sad thing for both Luke and all fans of the Greyhawk setting that Ernie’s actions have caused this likelihood.
That said, and I speak as a huge Greyhawk fan, the setting matters not one iota compared to standing up to the nasty bigots and neo-Nazis involved in NuTSR

I don't think the NuTSR Saga is going to impact Greyhawk being published. The dev cycle and planning for product is pretty long, so if Greyhawk is getting published in the next 1 to 2 years it is already being worked on. I think the main impediment to Greyhawk being published is what we have demonstrated right here in this thread... What is Greyhawk means something different to people depending on their entry point and how their table played with that world.
For example, I got the Folio and then the Box Set when they were published. Our Greyhawk campaign was a mix of Greyhawk specific 1st Edition modules and other TSR, Judges Guild, and other third party adventures (It was a funky blend of different tones and styles). That experience was way different from the people that came into it with From the Ashes and 2nd Edition (For me this was the introduction of the Grimdark version of Greyhawk) or the wave of people who came into Greyhawk during early 2000s with 3rd Edition and the Living Greyhawk campaign.
Vecna has been done to death (in Greyhawk modules he was already played out), I doubt they would do a mega dungeon of Castle Greyhawk (they already have Undermountain published for that), I guess if the Dragonlance warfare box set is a good seller they could do a Greyhawk Wars themed adventure... but no of this screams Greyhawk. Iuz? You already did Keoland in Saltmarsh... City based adventure was pretty much done with Waterdeep...
I wish I had a good answer but I don't.

 

[Emirikol]

I don't think the NuTSR Saga is going to impact Greyhawk being published. The I doubt they would do a mega dungeon of Castle Greyhawk (they already have Undermountain published for that), I guess if the Dragonlance warfare box set is a good seller they could do a Greyhawk Wars themed adventure... but no of this screams Greyhawk. Iuz? You already did Keoland in Saltmarsh... City based adventure was pretty much done with Waterdeep...
I wish I had a good answer but I don't.

There was a very interesting discussion on the Greyhawk materials that Gail Gygax is still holding hostage in the Ben Riggs interview by Jay Scott--as well as her troubling interview in Kotaku.

 

[Yaarel]

I expect 5e to publish Greyhawk, if only to enforce its intellectual property rights.

And there is so much good stuff in Greyhawk. And this setting is important historically for the origin of the hobby.

But it cannot be "copy-paste" from 1e into 5e. Everything needs cautious vetting and rewriting from the ground up, for sensitivities regarding ethnicities, genders, and so on.

I suspect Gary Gygax would agree with this.

 

[Eltab]

But at the same time wouldn't allow anybody to end Iuz for good.

True.
I earlier described as adventure goals 'take out Iuz's lieutenant' or 'grab his new toy and stash it someplace he can't retrieve it' or 'mess up his latest plans'. Figuring that 'fight Iuz in person to the death' would be more than the PCs would be able to handle (and would be too close to copying Lord of the Rings).

 

[pemerton]

I expect 5e to publish Greyhawk, if only to enforce its intellectual property rights.

It doesn't need to publish to enforce its copyright.

As far as trademarks are concerned, there is all this on DriveThru - - | Greyhawk | AD&D 1st Ed. | DriveThruRPG.com - and WotC is currently litigating to try and argue that these sales are sufficient to establish its rights as TM owner in relation to the material it is licensing to DriveThru.

 

[Eltab]

You are right here I think. And what a sad thing for both Luke and all fans of the Greyhawk setting that Ernie’s actions have caused this likelihood.
That said, and I speak as a huge Greyhawk fan, the setting matters not one iota compared to standing up to the nasty bigots and neo-Nazis involved in NuTSR

If WotC can come out with a Greyhawk product that is well-received with no input from nuTSR that would in effect pull the world out of their hands (and the various other Gygaxes' hands) despite their respective opinions about owning the legacy.