[Greyhawk] Rary

[Elder-Basilisk]

It is not canon, but there were a number of Living Greyhawk modules that dealt with Rary. Those modules implied that Rary was manipulated into betraying the circle by a powerful but unknown threat.

 

[Grue]

To be honest, from what I remember reading about the Co8 from the sorcerer's scroll, ToEE, and a few other sources (anecdotal Gygaxian tales and a mish mash of snippets to confuse things), I kinda felt the Co8's neutrality was at least slightly tilted toward evil. As an fellowship meant to 'maintain a balance', from the tales and actual results of their adventures you see very little of that. More like typical adventurer shenanigans... except a bit more competitive with one another (from exploration of a new part of the ruins to grabbing the kewl swag first) as well as 'accidentally' releasing horrible evils...at least twice.

I'm not sure the Co8 even existed officially in Gygax's campaign, and the format certainly was different from what we see in the published material. Offhand, I think at least two of the 'full' members were actually henchmen (Otto I'm pretty sure, Riggby the other? whatever) but from the things Gary wrote about Robilar (ToEE, land of black ice, and certain events under Greyhawk Castle including the release of Iuz), while fun-loving I would have never guessed he had 'Good' written anywhere close to that alignment line.

Rary the Traitor IMO is the least wonky explanation of how the original Co8 fell apart (apologies to Rob Kuntz, I've read he was a bit unhappy with how he used Robilar but I think it fits better and makes a more interesting setting than 'Robilar sits in his castle getting drunk with his henchmen while Oerth goes to hell'...and the retcon 'evil twin' Robilar is just terrible). It's not a great supplement but it's not the worst thing put out during the From the Ashes period.

As far as Rary turning evil... I think Sargent's tapout of him as the traitor was probably the best choice (Rary or the 'he's sooo Lawful Good he could snap' Tenser). First, he was a mind magic specialist mage. Never trust the mentalist;-). Second, assuming he looked around at the other material written about the Co8, the actual goals of the membership seemed more focused on gaining experience and amassing kewl lewt...sometimes not exactly cooperating with one another. Third, Rary was a PC of one of the Blume brothers...;-)

 

[jdrakeh]

I'm not sure the Co8 even existed officially in Gygax's campaign, and the format certainly was different from what we see in the published material. Offhand, I think at least two of the 'full' members were actually henchmen (Otto I'm pretty sure, Riggby the other? whatever) but from the things Gary wrote about Robilar (ToEE, land of black ice, and certain events under Greyhawk Castle including the release of Iuz), while fun-loving I would have never guessed he had 'Good' written anywhere close to that alignment line.

According to his write-up in the 1980 supplement The Rogue's Gallery, Robilar is Lawful Evil. I think this was published before the Rary/Robilar betrayal was brainstormed.

 

[Grue]

According to his write-up in the 1980 supplement The Rogue's Gallery, Robilar is Lawful Evil. I think this was published before the Rary/Robilar betrayal was brainstormed.

Hmm... <looks it up>... yep Lawful Evil in Rogue's Gallery (pub 1980). Though apparently Gary commented on the descriptions written by Brian Blume on Dragonsfoot as 'fanciful and underpowered'. Looking at Rob's blog, Robilar was supposedly Neutral in 79 (but I would think he'd get some input in the Rogue's Gallery write-up at the time), heh....

Actually, looking at Rogue's Gallery again, quite a few of the 'home' campaign PCs are either Neutral or Evil. Despite Rob Kuntz's problems with it (that Robilar would never betray his boon companions), I see Sargent's interpretation as a realistic eventuality in Robilar's story arc.

The 'do-nothing' Co8 had done nothing to stop or shape the chaos of the Greyhawk Wars (especially with Iuz at the center of it). Robilar, at least by his own view, is one of the most powerful individuals on Oerth, and has a history as 'a man of action' (if maybe on the reckless side). With a couple of years of Co8 inaction straining the personal relationship (and Robilar definitely seemed to be in the 'you don't have to run faster than the troll to escape, just your buddy' school of adventuring thought), Rary's conspiracy to seize their rightful place in the world I think would be attractive. The Co8 would try to stop them...and every adventurer knows the best treasure type is possessed by other adventurers...

Yeah the (more) evil twin Robilar from an alternate dimension doesn't really work for me. Robilar's redemption is hinted at in Rary the Traitor (he's bored and unhappy how things turned out). Even in Sargent's view, Robilar's feet were not firmly planted on the road to Hell... but he was not a good man and as a professional risk-taker he had more reason to seize the opportunity than stay loyal to a few drinking buddies\adventuring companions who he really didn't adventure with anymore.

As far as Rary, apparently from comments made by Gary on Dragonsfoot, "Rary was a low-level PC of Brian Blume. He wanted him to make "Medium," [1e you have level titles] so he could be Medium Rary. That's how the character was played...if one can call it that." So Rary seems like a fairly blank slate as far as his actual play history.

 

[Voadam]

Hmm... <looks it up>... yep Lawful Evil in Rogue's Gallery (pub 1980). Though apparently Gary commented on the descriptions written by Brian Blume on Dragonsfoot as 'fanciful and underpowered'. Looking at Rob's blog, Robilar was supposedly Neutral in 79 (but I would think he'd get some input in the Rogue's Gallery write-up at the time), heh....

Actually, looking at Rogue's Gallery again, quite a few of the 'home' campaign PCs are either Neutral or Evil. Despite Rob Kuntz's problems with it (that Robilar would never betray his boon companions), I see Sargent's interpretation as a realistic eventuality in Robilar's story arc.

I thought Gygax said a lot of those stats were made up as many of the original players (notably Gygax himself) would not give up their character sheets to share their game secrets.

 

[Grue]

I thought Gygax said a lot of those stats were made up as many of the original players (notably Gygax himself) would not give up their character sheets to share their game secrets.

Well Brian Blume, Dave Cook and Jean Wells have the credit line for The Rogues Gallery. All three apparently played in the rather large and haphazard 'home' campaign (Dave and Jean have PC entries in the Rogues Gallery). While stat wise I wouldn't expect them to be accurate, I would expect them to have direct knowledge of core and notable marks of the big name PC personalities. As a basic sketch, I don't think what was written too far off the mark of how those characters were actually played (gamers doing what gamers do...talking about their cool pcs).

I'm pretty sure Robilar was regarded as the toughest fighting man (and extensively played) PC of that era. And I think Gary and others hinted that Mordenkainen's power level was far in excess of what is presented in any published material. Still don't think many of the original players had particularly 'Good' pcs. They did set the mold for rollicking roving bands of heavily armed thugs dragging kingdoms' worth of swag across the countryside.

 

[Erik Mona]

Thats one of the stupidest things I have heard in quite some time.

Then you will be pleased to learn that Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk says no such thing.

The adventure _does_ feature a Robilar from a different dimension, but Rary does not figure into the adventure at all, and there is no suggestion anywhere that the Rary who betrayed the Circle was anyone other than the one described in the City of Greyhawk boxed set and Rary the Traitor.

Someone is mis-remembering the Robilar bit and applying it to Rary.

--Erik

 

[Dragonhelm]

Erik, I'd be curious what your thoughts are in regards to Rary the Traitor, Rary as an evil mage, and so on.

Thanks!

 

[grodog]

Gary never gave the "real" goods on his PCs, but IIRC Rob has stated that the Rogues Gallery PC listing for Robilar was accurate; I'll have to go back to compare to one of his early PC sheets to validate, but that's my recollection. As far as I know, Gary's the only one who didn't provide a real PC, so the stats for the rest should be good (and IIRC, Gary said that Brian Blume made up Gary's PC stats from whole cloth).

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

It is not canon, but there were a number of Living Greyhawk modules that dealt with Rary. Those modules implied that Rary was manipulated into betraying the circle by a powerful but unknown threat.

I quite enjoyed Rary's arc through LG. Likewise, I liked how Iuz was dealt with.