D&D General Greyhawk setting material

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Aaron L]

boggle

You, sir, just put forth the best argument I have ever seen for alignment languages.

I am convinced!

(blush)

Why thank you, my friend! I am sincerely honored!

I just think there is so much more to Alignment Languages than "HAHA how do you speak Chaotic Evil?!" Or the old joke about Lawful Good peasants who hear their teenage son speaking Chaotic Evil with his friends one day and confront him about it later at the dinner table, yelling "we didn't raise you to use such language, young man!" (although that is admittedly a funny joke.) As if speaking the Chaotic Evil tongue is just using really, really foul language (although the CE Tongue probably would be pretty foul and contain lots of profanity!)

It's a genuine shame that people dismiss Alignment Languages out of hand as dumb, without ever bothering to try to understand why they existed and what their purpose was.

 

[Parmandur]

So, here's a fun exercise: what sort of Module reprint sandboxes ala Ghosts of Saltmarsh are a good fit for Greyhaw/generic D&D?

I've got:

1.) All the Slavers stuff, the original modules plus any other Pomarji material over the yeares, with an expanded sandbox description of the region: maybe Patriots of Ulek?

2.) T1-4 with the surrounding countryside described in some detail: maybe throw in S4 and WG4 (for geography and level appropriateness) or City of Skulls (to get a Big Bad in there).

3.) N1 Against the Cult of the Reptile God & environs, which are not far from Saltmarsh as the crow flies: N1 is the only Mithril Seller on DMsGuild for pre-5E material, the single best-selling old module in PDF. I2 and I7 are nearby, as well, and Red Hand of Doom is in the same vicinity for Greyhawk purposes.

4.) Castle Maure would get a classic module and one of the best-regarded Dungeon Magazine adventures in one go.

5.) D series, mixed with Night Below (set in the Yeomanry and below if used for Greyhawk, physically right next to the D modules AND near Saltmarsh, and provides a low level "in" for the Underdark), maybe big Dungeon Underdark stuff like Kingdom of the Ghouls. Rules for Dungeonerring survival, maybe?

6.) Gates of Firestorm Peak?

7.) The L modules?

 

[LordEntrails]

I just think they are really cool and flavorful, and add a whole other layer of esoteric/magical culture to the world of D&D, and to Greyhawk specifically. I get really irked by people who say the Alignment Languages are dumb, especially since their complaints about them usually make it clear that they don't actually understand what the ALs are supposed to be in the first place.

I was/am one of those folks. Because I simple didn't understand all of what you wrote. But then again, was this actually detailed anywhere? Decades later you have this great explanation for alignment languages, but at the time, when I was a pre-teen, where was all this explanation for what alignment languages where?

The Alignments were known philosophical schools of thought in the world of Oerth, and the Alignment Languages were their jargon. A semi-magical jargon that was partly divinely granted.

So... not a language but a vocabulary?

The Alignment Languages weren't normal languages; you couldn't go to the local Lawful Good butcher and use the Lawful Good Alignment Tongue to order a beef tongue. p) They were a specialized jargon dedicated to discussing the finer points and details of the Alignment, and would be made up of words for very specific concepts of the philosophical positions espoused by each Alignment.

So not really useful except is some very specific role playing contexts that murder hobos never encountered? g

words that would only be useful in philosophical discussions about Lawful Good

You're not selling me on the usefulness of alignment languages anymore

Since the Hit Points, Saving Throws, and other abilities gained through achieving higher levels are in large part gained through the grace and power of the Gods and other cosmic entities and beings of magic,

Wait, doesn't this fly in the face of the essay linked earlier about what made GH different from FR? I thought the characters were the "doers" and that the gods were not puppet masters in GH...

It's a genuine shame that people dismiss Alignment Languages out of hand as dumb, without ever bothering to try to understand why they existed and what their purpose was.

Again, some of us were pretty childish when introduced to GH and alignment languages and such inferences were well beyond our capabilities. And even now I wonder the value. I mean I can see and understand all of what you have written and it makes sense, but I still don't see a use for it unless you are in a world where the gods are all powerful and the characters are just puppets of the various gods' wills...

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Parmandur]

Great question!

My first thought, because it's always my first thought is ....

drumroll ...

S3. Barrier Peaks, baby! How better to introduce the slightly off-kilter world of GH than with Barrier Peaks?

Or, if they could do it, S2-S4 + WG4 (which is really S5).

(As for the other suggestions- I would go with either the A series or the D series).

Barrier Peaks is getting reprinted in December by Goodman Games with 5E conversions and material expansions, so WotC has no plans to do anything else with it anytime soon (B1-2, B4, and X1 are similarly off the menu: apparently, Goodman has a list they can choose from that WitC has no plans for using). Similarly, S2 is already in Tales from the Yawning Portal along with S1.

It's not that WG4 was meant to be S5, rather S4 was meant to be WG3, following WG1-2 (Hommlet and the Temple of Elemental Evil, respectively). But things got messy around then...

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Parmandur]

gah!

I don't know whether to be happy (Goodman Games does a great job) or sad that they are abandoning that particular IP to third parties, which means that they are likely NOT going down the slightly gonzo route.

I hear ya

ep. I was just indicating the shared lineage/story of S4 and WG4, which is not readily apparent today.

Not readily apparent, but Mearls knows that, and S4 and WG4 are his favorite modules of all time.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

So, here's a fun exercise: what sort of Module reprint sandboxes ala Ghosts of Saltmarsh are a good fit for Greyhaw/generic D&D?

If I could pick one, I'd like to see the D series, plus Queen of the Demonweb Pits. Against the Giants has already been adapted so it could be a high-level sequel to that.

And curve-ball suggestion, Age of Worms reprinted an collated in one book.

 

[Parmandur]

If I could pick one, I'd like to see the D series, plus Queen of the Demonweb Pits. Against the Giants has already been adapted so it could be a high-level sequel to that.

And curve-ball suggestion, Age of Worms reprinted an collated in one book.

The 3.x Dungeon APs might be a good idea,not sure if there are any rights issues with Paizo?

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

snip

I just love all the detail, story potential, and layers of meaning that are provided by Alignment Languages!

Good stuff. The idea of "dog whistles" brought me around to the concept of alignment languages being viable. Certain words or phrases said in certain contexts that let other like minded people know you are one of them, but seem innocuous to the uninitiated.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

The 3.x Dungeon APs might be a good idea,not sure if there are any right sissies with Paizo?

Not that I know of. D&D is pretty savvy on who owns what with partnerships, so I'd be surprised if Paizo could block a re-release.

 

[Telvin]

So, here's a fun exercise: what sort of Module reprint sandboxes ala Ghosts of Saltmarsh are a good fit for Greyhaw/generic D&D?

I've got:

1.) All the Slavers stuff, the original modules plus any other Pomarji material over the yeares, with an expanded sandbox description of the region: maybe Patriots of Ulek?

2.) T1-4 with the surrounding countryside described in some detail: maybe throw in S4 and WG4 (for geography and level appropriateness) or City of Skulls (to get a Big Bad in there).

3.) N1 Against the Cult of the Reptile God & environs, which are not far from Saltmarsh as the crow flies: N1 is the only Mithril Seller on DMsGuild for pre-5E material, the single best-selling old module in PDF. I2 and I7 are nearby, as well, and Red Hand of Doom is in the same vicinity for Greyhawk purposes.

4.) Castle Maure would get a classic module and one of the best-regarded Dungeon Magazine adventures in one go.

5.) D series, mixed with Night Below (set in the Yeomanry and below if used for Greyhawk, physically right next to the D modules AND near Saltmarsh, and provides a low level "in" for the Underdark), maybe big Dungeon Underdark stuff like Kingdom of the Ghouls. Rules for Dungeonerring survival, maybe?

6.) Gates of Firestorm Peak?

7.) The L modules?

With G series already done, I would love to see the D series, followed by Q. That all being said, T series and the A series would be awesome as prequels. What can I say, I loved them. I ran them all in 1st edition. One hell of a campaign it would be.

 

[Parmandur]

With G series already done, I would love to see the D series, followed by Q. That all being said, T series and the A series would be awesome as prequels. What can I say, I loved them. I ran them all in 1st edition. One hell of a campaign it would be.

The precedent I already there with Ghosts of Saltmarsh to have notes about working other reprint modules in, so a D-centered book could easily for in with Tales from the Yawning Portal.

 

[grodog]

I personally like the late 2e "The Adventure Begins" stuff, but I'm told that isn't good Greyhawk. I guess it depends on what you want out of the setting and what your tolerance for changes are.

There's definitely some good work published during the "Greyhawk 98"/Silver Anniversary era:

• I'm overly-fond of Return of the Eight for the detailed setting of Tenser's Castle (The Fortress of Unknown Depths) and Iggwilv's behind-the-scenes machinations in the scenario
• The City of Greyhawk from "The Adventure Begins" is superior to the box set published beforehand
• The Stair Cairns module was also pretty good

Allan.

 

[grodog]

So, here's a fun exercise: what sort of Module reprint sandboxes ala Ghosts of Saltmarsh are a good fit for Greyhaw/generic D&D?

I've got:

4.) Castle Maure would get a classic module and one of the best-regarded Dungeon Magazine adventures in one go.

I'd love to see RJK detail the rest of Maure Castle and its environs someday.

5.) D series, mixed with Night Below (set in the Yeomanry and below if used for Greyhawk, physically right next to the D modules AND near Saltmarsh, and provides a low level "in" for the Underdark), maybe big Dungeon Underdark stuff like Kingdom of the Ghouls. Rules for Dungeonerring survival, maybe?

In addition to Kingdom of the Ghouls, Wolfgang Baur wrote Empire of the Ghouls as a 3.5 (I think?) Open Design patrons-only project in 2008 set in Greyhawk as a sequel to KotG. Very good stuff!

Allan.

 

[grodog]

So, here's a fun exercise: what sort of Module reprint sandboxes ala Ghosts of Saltmarsh are a good fit for Greyhaw/generic D&D?

There are a lot of areas that remain untouched in Greyhawk canon that could be developed fresh of course (and I'd prefer to see new material published* vs. the continuous rehashing of stuff I already own), but in terms of reprints and/or collections specifically, I'm most-interested in:

• PaizoHawk: Age of Worms and Maure Castle
• Ivid the Undying's Great Kingdom, perhaps combined with RJK's Maze of Zayene modules/materials and his version of Rauxes (from Fate of Istus)
• Some of the materials from Living Greyhawk were very good, including Erik Mona's "Absolute Power" series ("River of Blood" and "As He Lay Dying" and the sequels he never wrote, of course!)
• the drowic underworld done right!

However, Castle Greyhawk in its original and expanded incarnations of course still tops my list! =)

Allan.

* including, in no particular order:

• The Rift Canyon and Bandit Kingdoms
• The Isles of Woe
• The Sea of Dust
• The Land of Black Ice
• 20,000 Leagues Below The Nyr Dyv
• The Wild Coast and Pomarj - failed states in fading glory
• historical Greyhawk adventures (perhaps a la Arcane Age for FR if I'm remembering those titles accurately): prior to the Rain of Colorless Fire, during Vecna's or Iggwilv's reigns, etc.
• Greyhawk-related planar adventures/settings are also a deeply-untapped well....

 

[Zardnaar]

The World of Greyhawk is my absolute favorite setting. I love the 'Realms (especially the 1E Old Grey Box and the 3E FRCS) but Greyhawk is just my personal favorite thing, with all it's weirdness (in the original sense of Lovecraft/Clark Ashton Smith style Weird Fiction) oldschool 1930s pulp feel, and its mix of Late Dark Ages/Early Medieval Earth and Jack Vance Dying Earth. While the 'Realms are at a level equivalent to Earth circa 1400-1600 (Late Medieval to Renaissance) Greyhawk is at more of a 1000-1300 level. And I just love that. I loved the fact that you could walk into a major settlement, like the Free City of Greyhawk, pass by huddled beggars pleading for food (who were just as likely thieves ready to cut your purse if you stopped to help) and then continue on to the town square where there could be a subdued dragon up for auction! And I absolutely loved the fact that it was all a mish-mash of Knights and Wizards and monsters and magic and psychic powers and martial artist Monks. I love Alignment Languages! It really did feel like an old 1930 weird pulp story, with everything thrown in just because it was cool and fun, with a touch of darkness, and the "heroes" were more likely to be glory-seeking, tomb-robbing roughnecks out for gold and fame than they were to be high-minded, world-saving pinnacles of righteousness.

I love the way the original maps didn't have any hard, definite borders and instead just had the names of realms in large letters at the center of the area they controlled, and the areas between just sort of drifted off and individual towns and cities mattered more than kingdoms and large realms. Just like in real life medieval Europe. It really fit the setting with the rules, how a 9th level Fighter could just go out into one of those "in-between" areas, clear an area of monsters, build a castle, and now he was Lord So-and-So and could collect taxes from anyone who came to settle in his newly cleared land. (I really miss that aspect from the game, by the way, and just wish there was more of that kind of thing in the 5E rules, which I mostly love to pieces.)

The books and boxed sets that I consider to be the best sources for Oerth are:
The 1983 World of Greyhawk Boxed Set, for Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st Edition
The From the Ashes boxed set, for Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition
The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, for Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition

I personally use these three sets as my primary sources of information for Greyhawk. Also, the original 1980 World of Greyhawk Folio is great if you can get a hold of it, although I consider the 1983 Boxed Set to be superior.

I was first introduced to the World of Greyhawk setting with From the Ashes, which I found on discount in the bookstore I worked at during my freshman year of college, and I immediately fell in love with the setting. About a year later I was introduced to the 1983 boxed set by my friend who became our primary Dungeon Master, who preferred running his games using the 1st Edition rules instead of the current (at the time) 2nd Edition, and he lent me his copy of the '83 boxed set to read to my heart's content because he knew how much I loved Greyhawk (he also outright gave me his copy of Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun because he knew how much I loved Greyhawk and how much I loved HP Lovecraft.)

You should be able to buy PDF copies of all of these books to use for yourself. As for myself, two months ago a very good friend of mine, one of the guys I play D&D with, was able to buy both the 1980 and 1983 Greyhawk sets, in very, very wonderful crisp, clean condition, as part of a large lot of old D&D books (including two copies of the 1983 set!) from an older gentleman who was selling off his collection, and since my friend knew how much I love Greyhawk he asked me how much I thought they were worth, and if I would be maybe be interested in just buying them from him before he put them up for sale, if I didn't have them already. I showed him how much they were going for on eBay currently (in much, MUCH worse condition!), let him know that I had desperately been wanting to buy the 1983 boxed set for years but just hadn't had the money, and told him that I could pay him 40$ for the 1983 set now with more to come later.

Instead, he made me a counter-offer of $20 each for both the 1980 and 1983 sets, and said he wouldn't accept a cent more than that from me! He told me that he would much rather sell them to me than to some random guy online because he knew that I would really love them, and he wasn't concerned about the money (he knows how many medical problems I have and that I live on disability income and just don't have very much money, and also knows how much I love Greyhawk.) So no I am now the proud owner of physical copies of all the major World of Greyhawk campaign books and boxed sets, all in excellent condition, including the original, beautiful Flanaess maps by DARLENE. The only thing I'm missing now is the box for the 1983 Boxed Set, so I'm keeping my eyes out for one that I could pick up.

But that's enough rambling for now... sorry, I tend to get carried away when I start talking about Greyhawk.

(My friend is a really, really awesome guy with a huge, kind heart.)

Nice I bought a Star Wars collection online once. When he found out I was from New Zealand he sent it postage free. He was one of the designers as well so I got signed copies of some rare stuff. The amount paid didn't even cover the postage.

I sent him a NZ rugby jersey later to say thanks.

 

[Aaron L]

Nice I bought a Star Wars collection online once. When he found out I was from New Zealand he sent it postage free. He was one of the designers as well so I got signed copies of some rare stuff. The amount paid didn't even cover the postage.

I sent him a NZ rugby jersey later to say thanks.

Isn't it great when people are nice to each other?

If everyone in the world only looked out for themselves and was only concerned with their own self-interest than that would mean that everyone would only have one person looking out for them: themselves. But if everyone would make just a bit of effort to also look out for each other then we would all have the entire world looking out for us. Universal support network.

I can't decide if that's a Lawful Good or a Neutral Good outlook. Or maybe just Good.

 

[David Howery]

Whoaa was just a harmless joke with a hundred years old beard, did not mean no offense and to further apologize myself i did not start the "forum roleplay" here so please don't feel offended.

was kidding, not serious, not offended. Just couldn't let that bit of whimsy pass without comment